8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "miso[ at ]sushi.com" <miso[ at ]sushi.com> 12/27/2008 2:33:40 AM I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Robert McMillan" <rmcmillan[ at ]bigpond.com> 12/27/2008 4:19:10 AM You need Vista 64 to use any more than 4GB of ram, and depending on video cards and other hardware in the system you would need Vista 64 to even use 4GB of ram. If your hardware is recent enough to be considering 8GB of ram then the drivers are available and stable so just go with 64bit. <miso[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... [Quoted Text] > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Jane C" <janecolman[ at ]invalid.iinet.net.au> 12/27/2008 4:21:20 AM <miso[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... [Quoted Text] > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this? While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still only *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use between 2.7GB and 3.6GB. -- Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :-) Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-) MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "miso[ at ]sushi.com" <miso[ at ]sushi.com> 12/27/2008 6:36:01 AM On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <janecol...[ at ]invalid.iinet.net.au> wrote: [Quoted Text] > <m...[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message > > news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... > > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > > enough processes.  Can one of you gurus elaborate on this? > > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still only > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use between > 2.7GB and 3.6GB. > > -- > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :-) > Batteries not included.  Braincell on vacation ;-) > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first hand knowledge of any version of vista.]

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 12/27/2008 7:02:59 AM Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista 32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64 http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel <miso[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message news:e1191dcc-a2ad-4383-8863-464d65dbeb93[ at ]c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com... On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <janecol...[ at ]invalid.iinet.net.au> wrote: [Quoted Text] > <m...[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message > > news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... > > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this? > > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still > only > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use > between > 2.7GB and 3.6GB. > > -- > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :-) > Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-) > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first hand knowledge of any version of vista.]

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Bo Persson" <bop[ at ]gmb.dk> 12/27/2008 11:50:05 AM Charlie Russel - MVP wrote: [Quoted Text] > Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista > 32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista > And this is of course inconsistent with the information on this page. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx :-) Bo Persson

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "John John (MVP)" <audetweld[ at ]nbnet.nb.ca> 12/27/2008 12:41:03 PM Bo Persson wrote: [Quoted Text] > Charlie Russel - MVP wrote: > >>Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista >>32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see: >> >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista >> > > > > And this is of course inconsistent with the information on this page. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx Not really. It is confusing but when you read and decipher the article correctly it doesn't say that 32-bit workstation operating systems can access more than 4GB of RAM, it does say that they support PAE but it isn't for large memory support. Note the following excerpts: "PAE is supported by 32-bit Windows *Server* systems to enable access to up to 128 GB of physical memory." Please note that Vista is NOT a Server system. Then the following information is given: "PAE also enables several advanced system and processor features, including hardware-enabled Data Execution Prevention (DEP)..." 32-bit Vista and XP both support PAE for DEP but neither of them support the use of PAE for large memory support, they are not server systems. While the article in question is a bit confusing, it is technically correct and nowhere does it say that 32-bit Vista can access more than 4GB of RAM, only uses PAE for Data Execution Prevention. John

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 12/27/2008 2:15:29 PM Read more carefully, Bo. It is quite consistent, though confusing. But regardless of PAE or not, the limitation is an OS limitation on the amount of memory that it will allow for use. (So, for example, see the limit on Vista Home Basic.) It's really straightforward. If you want to use >4GB on a client Windows operating system, you must run 64-bit. -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64 http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel "Bo Persson" <bop[ at ]gmb.dk> wrote in message news:6rmj3dF2b4epU1[ at ]mid.individual.net... [Quoted Text] > Charlie Russel - MVP wrote: >> Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista >> 32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista >> > > > And this is of course inconsistent with the information on this page. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx > > > :-) > > > Bo Persson > >

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "miso[ at ]sushi.com" <miso[ at ]sushi.com> 12/27/2008 5:46:48 PM On Dec 26, 11:02 pm, "Charlie Russel - MVP" <char...[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote: [Quoted Text] > Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista 32-bit. If > you want "official" confirmation, see: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory... > > -- > Charlie.http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel > > <m...[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message > > news:e1191dcc-a2ad-4383-8863-464d65dbeb93[ at ]c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <janecol...[ at ]invalid.iinet.net.au> wrote: > > > > > <m...[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message > > >news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... > > > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > > > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this? > > > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still > > only > > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use > > between > > 2.7GB and 3.6GB. > > > -- > > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :-) > > Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-) > > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience > > Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are > you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does > the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first > hand knowledge of any version of vista.] <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista> Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible to load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it.

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista Bobby Johnson <rjohnson[ at ]aol.NOSPAM.com> 12/27/2008 6:30:49 PM How do you figure you can load video memory above 4GB? miso[ at ]sushi.com wrote: [Quoted Text] > > <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ > aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista> > Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible > to load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it. >

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "miso[ at ]sushi.com" <miso[ at ]sushi.com> 12/28/2008 11:38:08 PM On Dec 27, 10:30 am, Bobby Johnson <rjohn...[ at ]aol.NOSPAM.com> wrote: [Quoted Text] > How do you figure you can load video memory above 4GB? > > m...[ at ]sushi.com wrote: > > > <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ > > aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista> > > Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible > > to  load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it. I don't know for a fact if RAM above 4G can be used under win32. It was more of a question. If the mobo needs RAM and the operations are handled by the mobo and not the OS, I suspect it would be possible for the RAM to be used. However, thinking about this, I suspect this would be a problem in AMD implementations, since the CPU has the memory controller on board. To make this perfectly clear, I don't run 32bit Vista. I run X64. I was just looking into some claims I read on "the internets" about 32 bit Vista that I thought weren't true, but just wanted to verify.

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "John Barnes" <jbfoofy[ at ]nomailemail.com> 12/29/2008 1:32:35 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension <miso[ at ]sushi.com> wrote in message news:397a4a22-6fb5-4ceb-92ce-a97e8c4bc32f[ at ]v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com... [Quoted Text] > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <chuckw[ at ]online.microsoft.com> 12/29/2008 9:30:36 PM While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details all the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram_and_.php In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to 128 GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many existing drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server hardware configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by advanced editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of Windows x86 use PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course this is only for physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always limited to 2 GB (or 3 GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot modes) for a 32-bit OS. -- -Chuck Walbourn SDE, XNA Developer Connection This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no rights.

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "miso[ at ]sushi.com" <miso[ at ]sushi.com> 12/30/2008 7:52:42 AM On Dec 29, 1:30 pm, "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <chu...[ at ]online.microsoft.com> wrote: [Quoted Text] > While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details all > the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc. > > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram... > > In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a > full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to 128 > GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many existing > drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server hardware > configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by advanced > editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of Windows x86 use > PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course this is only for > physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always limited to 2 GB (or 3 > GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot modes) for a 32-bit OS. > > -- > -Chuck Walbourn > SDE, XNA Developer Connection > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no rights. That was worth reading. I've seen the video "aperture" in bios, but never bothered to investigate what it meant.

Re: 8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 12/30/2008 3:32:53 PM Thanks. That's an excellent article. -- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/ http://vistahelpca.blogspot.com/ "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <chuckw[ at ]online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:C1BC5463-3224-482B-B37F-663BF6FEF274[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details > all the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc. > > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram_and_.php > > In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a > full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to > 128 GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many > existing drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server > hardware configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by > advanced editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of > Windows x86 use PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course > this is only for physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always > limited to 2 GB (or 3 GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot > modes) for a 32-bit OS. > > -- > -Chuck Walbourn > SDE, XNA Developer Connection > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no > rights.