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Group:  English: Windows Server » microsoft.public.windows.server.dns
Thread: DNS-AD integration

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DNS-AD integration
Yeo 11/14/2008 6:58:19 AM
I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become domain
controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.

Question 1:
When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get request
timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com. At this
point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am able to
successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows request
timeout. Why is this so?
Any website for further reading in this area?

Question 2:
Is there any special settings in DNS or script to prevent the domain name
from pointing to the shutdown domain controller and only pointing to the
active domain controller?
Or is that how the DNS behave, can do anything about it?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Re: DNS-AD integration
Meinolf Weber 11/14/2008 7:09:56 AM
Hello Yeo,

See inline.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


[Quoted Text]
> I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become
> domain
> controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
> I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.
> Question 1:
> When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get
> request
> timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com. At
> this
> point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am able
> to
> successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows
> request
> timeout. Why is this so?
> Any website for further reading in this area?

If you ping a domainname you can get a reply or not. This does not belong
to a special server. If you have more subnets you can get also an answer
from a server from a different subnet. Pinging the domainname is not really
a reliable option to check connectivity, choose the domain controller name's
or ip address.

> Question 2:
> Is there any special settings in DNS or script to prevent the domain
> name
> from pointing to the shutdown domain controller and only pointing to
> the
> active domain controller?
> Or is that how the DNS behave, can do anything about it?

You can not prevent this. What is the reason for pinging the domainname instead
of a machine?

> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks.

Re: DNS-AD integration
Yeo 11/14/2008 7:45:01 AM
Thanks Weber,
See inline.


"Meinolf Weber" wrote:

[Quoted Text]
> Hello Yeo,
>
> See inline.
>
> Best regards
>
> Meinolf Weber
> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
> no rights.
> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>
>
> > I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become
> > domain
> > controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
> > I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.
> > Question 1:
> > When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get
> > request
> > timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com. At
> > this
> > point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am able
> > to
> > successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows
> > request
> > timeout. Why is this so?
> > Any website for further reading in this area?
>
> If you ping a domainname you can get a reply or not. This does not belong
> to a special server. If you have more subnets you can get also an answer
> from a server from a different subnet. Pinging the domainname is not really
> a reliable option to check connectivity, choose the domain controller name's
> or ip address.
Pinging to the domain name when one of domain controller is down: sometime I
can get reply and sometime I get request timeout. My guess is when the domain
name TTL is expired, the domain name will use the first domain controller ip
address. When the next TTL is expired, the domain name will use the second
domain controller ip address even if the second domain controller is shutdown.

>
> > Question 2:
> > Is there any special settings in DNS or script to prevent the domain
> > name
> > from pointing to the shutdown domain controller and only pointing to
> > the
> > active domain controller?
> > Or is that how the DNS behave, can do anything about it?
>
> You can not prevent this. What is the reason for pinging the domainname instead
> of a machine?
Our support persons are used to the domain name. They join machines to the
domain using the domain name, hence will also use domain name to check for
the system uptime. We thought the domain name is smart enough to give the ip
address of the active domain controller ip address instead of non active
domain controller ip address.

Another Question:
Any advantages of using Dynamic DNS to allow registration of machine name
instead of using WINS to resolve mahine name?

>
> > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
Re: DNS-AD integration
"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <firstnamelastname[ at ]hotmail.com> 11/16/2008 2:28:45 AM
In news:A5EC39ED-779D-4767-A9C7-80324093F398[ at ]microsoft.com,
Yeo <Yeo[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> requesting assistance, typed the
following:
[Quoted Text]
> Thanks Weber,
> See inline.
>
>
> "Meinolf Weber" wrote:
>
>> Hello Yeo,
>>
>> See inline.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Meinolf Weber
>> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
>> confers no rights.
>> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
>> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>>
>>
>>> I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become
>>> domain
>>> controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
>>> I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.
>>> Question 1:
>>> When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get
>>> request
>>> timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com. At
>>> this
>>> point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am able
>>> to
>>> successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows
>>> request
>>> timeout. Why is this so?
>>> Any website for further reading in this area?
>>
>> If you ping a domainname you can get a reply or not. This does not
>> belong
>> to a special server. If you have more subnets you can get also an
>> answer
>> from a server from a different subnet. Pinging the domainname is not
>> really
>> a reliable option to check connectivity, choose the domain
>> controller name's or ip address.
> Pinging to the domain name when one of domain controller is down:
> sometime I can get reply and sometime I get request timeout. My guess
> is when the domain name TTL is expired, the domain name will use the
> first domain controller ip address. When the next TTL is expired, the
> domain name will use the second domain controller ip address even if
> the second domain controller is shutdown.

To add to Meinolf's excellent response, when pinging an Active Directory
domain name, it will be resolving the "(same as parent)" host name. This is
also called the LdapIpAddress. Every DC in a domain will register this name.
It is used by numerous services, including when a client machine runs the
GetGpoList function at boot and/or logon to query for GPOs that it must
apply. If any DC is down, or if Sites are enabled, and a DC is down in it;s
respect site, and it happens to resolve to that IP, then that specific
function in my example will not run and generate Eventlog errors (103 & 1058
in this case), It will use DNS Round Robin to resolve it. When you pinged
it, you just happend to get the IP of the powered down DC, unless of course
the DC never registered properly. Check DNS to make sure they are
registered.

Also, the GC service is running on one of the DCs, which is a required
service. If you've powered down this DC, it will cause other issues.

All DCs in an AD domain MUST always be running. There is really no other
option.

Also, make absolutely sure that both DCs and all clients are ONLY using the
internal DNS (assuming both DCs are DNS servers?) in your AD infrastructure.
Configure a Forwarder in DNS properties (Forwarders Tab) on each DC/DNS to
point to an ISP to increase efficiency for internet name resolution.

btw - WINS is not used by Active Directory. NT4 did in the past, but AD
doesn't work that way.

Joining a machine can be done by specifying the domain name in one or two
ways. One as the NetBIOS name, such as "DOMAIN" and the other as the FQDN,
such as 'domain.com.' If you chose the NetBIOS method, and a DC is local on
the subnet, it will grab the first available DC that responds. If using
FQDN, it will resolve that in DNS and if you get the one powered down, the
join process will fail.



--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCT
Microsoft Certified Trainer

For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly.
Please check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone
numbers.

Re: DNS-AD integration
Yeo 11/17/2008 5:44:01 AM


"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" wrote:

[Quoted Text]
> In news:A5EC39ED-779D-4767-A9C7-80324093F398[ at ]microsoft.com,
> Yeo <Yeo[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> requesting assistance, typed the
> following:
> > Thanks Weber,
> > See inline.
> >
> >
> > "Meinolf Weber" wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Yeo,
> >>
> >> See inline.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Meinolf Weber
> >> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
> >> confers no rights.
> >> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> >> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become
> >>> domain
> >>> controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
> >>> I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.
> >>> Question 1:
> >>> When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get
> >>> request
> >>> timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com. At
> >>> this
> >>> point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am able
> >>> to
> >>> successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows
> >>> request
> >>> timeout. Why is this so?
> >>> Any website for further reading in this area?
> >>
> >> If you ping a domainname you can get a reply or not. This does not
> >> belong
> >> to a special server. If you have more subnets you can get also an
> >> answer
> >> from a server from a different subnet. Pinging the domainname is not
> >> really
> >> a reliable option to check connectivity, choose the domain
> >> controller name's or ip address.
> > Pinging to the domain name when one of domain controller is down:
> > sometime I can get reply and sometime I get request timeout. My guess
> > is when the domain name TTL is expired, the domain name will use the
> > first domain controller ip address. When the next TTL is expired, the
> > domain name will use the second domain controller ip address even if
> > the second domain controller is shutdown.
>
> To add to Meinolf's excellent response, when pinging an Active Directory
> domain name, it will be resolving the "(same as parent)" host name. This is
> also called the LdapIpAddress. Every DC in a domain will register this name.
> It is used by numerous services, including when a client machine runs the
> GetGpoList function at boot and/or logon to query for GPOs that it must
> apply. If any DC is down, or if Sites are enabled, and a DC is down in it;s
> respect site, and it happens to resolve to that IP, then that specific
> function in my example will not run and generate Eventlog errors (103 & 1058
> in this case), It will use DNS Round Robin to resolve it. When you pinged
> it, you just happend to get the IP of the powered down DC, unless of course
> the DC never registered properly. Check DNS to make sure they are
> registered.
>
> Also, the GC service is running on one of the DCs, which is a required
> service. If you've powered down this DC, it will cause other issues.
>
> All DCs in an AD domain MUST always be running. There is really no other
> option.
>
> Also, make absolutely sure that both DCs and all clients are ONLY using the
> internal DNS (assuming both DCs are DNS servers?) in your AD infrastructure.
> Configure a Forwarder in DNS properties (Forwarders Tab) on each DC/DNS to
> point to an ISP to increase efficiency for internet name resolution.
>
> btw - WINS is not used by Active Directory. NT4 did in the past, but AD
> doesn't work that way.
>
> Joining a machine can be done by specifying the domain name in one or two
> ways. One as the NetBIOS name, such as "DOMAIN" and the other as the FQDN,
> such as 'domain.com.' If you chose the NetBIOS method, and a DC is local on
> the subnet, it will grab the first available DC that responds. If using
> FQDN, it will resolve that in DNS and if you get the one powered down, the
> join process will fail.
>
>
>
> --
> Ace
>
> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
> confers no rights.
>
> Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCT
> Microsoft Certified Trainer
>
> For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly.
> Please check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone
> numbers.

Thanks Acer and Weber for the reply.
I have query pertaining to the Acer last statement:
"If using FQDN, it will resolve that in DNS and if you get the one powered
down, the join process will fail."
Does this means that there is no way to prevent it from happening, except to
make sure that you have to recover the powered down DC asap? How do you know
which domain controller the client machine is using currently, by pinging to
domain name to see which DC it is using ??

Re: DNS-AD integration
Yeo 11/17/2008 8:39:01 AM
Hi Weber,
When a new non domain client machine first try to join to domain, the
machine itself is not configure to any LOGONSERVER, and does this means that,
even when one DC is down, the machine will still able to join to domain??..
the DNS will direct it to use the live domain controller for authenication?


"Meinolf Weber" wrote:

[Quoted Text]
> Hello Yeo,
>
> You should always have all DC's up and running and if they are down bring
> them up again ASAP.
>
> On the client open a command prompt and type "set". In the output you have
> the LOGONSERVER.
>
> Best regards
>
> Meinolf Weber
> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
> no rights.
> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>
>
> > "Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" wrote:
> >
> >> In news:A5EC39ED-779D-4767-A9C7-80324093F398[ at ]microsoft.com,
> >> Yeo <Yeo[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> requesting assistance, typed the
> >> following:
> >>> Thanks Weber,
> >>> See inline.
> >>> "Meinolf Weber" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello Yeo,
> >>>>
> >>>> See inline.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Meinolf Weber
> >>>> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,
> >>>> and
> >>>> confers no rights.
> >>>> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> >>>> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
> >>>>> I have set up two servers (abc and xyz) and promote them to become
> >>>>> domain
> >>>>> controllers with domain name say tamkprod-add.test.com
> >>>>> I have also set up AD-integrated DNS in both of these servers.
> >>>>> Question 1:
> >>>>> When I shut down one of the domain controllers, sometimes I get
> >>>>> request
> >>>>> timout when I do a ping to the domain name tamkprod-add.test.com.
> >>>>> At
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> point of time, when I join a client machine to the domain, I am
> >>>>> able
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> successfully join to the domain even when the domain name shows
> >>>>> request
> >>>>> timeout. Why is this so?
> >>>>> Any website for further reading in this area?
> >>>> If you ping a domainname you can get a reply or not. This does not
> >>>> belong
> >>>> to a special server. If you have more subnets you can get also an
> >>>> answer
> >>>> from a server from a different subnet. Pinging the domainname is
> >>>> not
> >>>> really
> >>>> a reliable option to check connectivity, choose the domain
> >>>> controller name's or ip address.
> >>> Pinging to the domain name when one of domain controller is down:
> >>> sometime I can get reply and sometime I get request timeout. My
> >>> guess is when the domain name TTL is expired, the domain name will
> >>> use the first domain controller ip address. When the next TTL is
> >>> expired, the domain name will use the second domain controller ip
> >>> address even if the second domain controller is shutdown.
> >>>
> >> To add to Meinolf's excellent response, when pinging an Active
> >> Directory domain name, it will be resolving the "(same as parent)"
> >> host name. This is also called the LdapIpAddress. Every DC in a
> >> domain will register this name. It is used by numerous services,
> >> including when a client machine runs the GetGpoList function at boot
> >> and/or logon to query for GPOs that it must apply. If any DC is down,
> >> or if Sites are enabled, and a DC is down in it;s respect site, and
> >> it happens to resolve to that IP, then that specific function in my
> >> example will not run and generate Eventlog errors (103 & 1058 in this
> >> case), It will use DNS Round Robin to resolve it. When you pinged it,
> >> you just happend to get the IP of the powered down DC, unless of
> >> course the DC never registered properly. Check DNS to make sure they
> >> are registered.
> >>
> >> Also, the GC service is running on one of the DCs, which is a
> >> required service. If you've powered down this DC, it will cause other
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> All DCs in an AD domain MUST always be running. There is really no
> >> other option.
> >>
> >> Also, make absolutely sure that both DCs and all clients are ONLY
> >> using the internal DNS (assuming both DCs are DNS servers?) in your
> >> AD infrastructure. Configure a Forwarder in DNS properties
> >> (Forwarders Tab) on each DC/DNS to point to an ISP to increase
> >> efficiency for internet name resolution.
> >>
> >> btw - WINS is not used by Active Directory. NT4 did in the past, but
> >> AD doesn't work that way.
> >>
> >> Joining a machine can be done by specifying the domain name in one or
> >> two ways. One as the NetBIOS name, such as "DOMAIN" and the other as
> >> the FQDN, such as 'domain.com.' If you chose the NetBIOS method, and
> >> a DC is local on the subnet, it will grab the first available DC that
> >> responds. If using FQDN, it will resolve that in DNS and if you get
> >> the one powered down, the join process will fail.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ace
> >> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
> >> confers no rights.
> >>
> >> Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCT Microsoft
> >> Certified Trainer
> >>
> >> For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly.
> >> Please check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone
> >> numbers.
> >>
> > Thanks Acer and Weber for the reply.
> > I have query pertaining to the Acer last statement:
> > "If using FQDN, it will resolve that in DNS and if you get the one
> > powered
> > down, the join process will fail."
> > Does this means that there is no way to prevent it from happening,
> > except to make sure that you have to recover the powered down DC asap?
> > How do you know which domain controller the client machine is using
> > currently, by pinging to domain name to see which DC it is using ??
> >
>
>
>
Re: DNS-AD integration
"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <firstnamelastname[ at ]hotmail.com> 11/22/2008 11:59:25 PM
In news:98CBABAB-D7D2-4535-801D-7E6AFA65EBFE[ at ]microsoft.com,
Yeo <Yeo[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> requesting assistance, typed the
following:
[Quoted Text]
> Hi Weber,
> When a new non domain client machine first try to join to domain, the
> machine itself is not configure to any LOGONSERVER, and does this
> means that, even when one DC is down, the machine will still able to
> join to domain??.. the DNS will direct it to use the live domain
> controller for authenication?
>

In addition to Meinolf's reply, you have to make sure the DNS address in IP
properties in the client machine are only using the internal DNS server(s),
wihch in your case, are your DCs.

And yes, to reiterate Meinolf's suggestions, both DCs must always be UP.

Which DC is the GC (Global Catalog)? This is an important as well.

Ace

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