A not so gentle hint. Feliks Dzerzhinsky <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> 4/26/2007 7:46:09 PM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? - -- Iron Feliks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGMQGBIEgejQPpTu4RCuRUAJ46sC4rtMkXMVAt1XbczUkDdvjzIgCfW7gy uCbJ3TCjLN/t/gGXI/iRLnw= =FY/f -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)[ at ]msn.com> 4/26/2007 9:05:30 PM What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine. -- Colin Barnhorst MVP Virtual Machine "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? > - -- > Iron Feliks > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGMQGBIEgejQPpTu4RCuRUAJ46sC4rtMkXMVAt1XbczUkDdvjzIgCfW7gy > uCbJ3TCjLN/t/gGXI/iRLnw= > =FY/f > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. "John Barnes" <jbarnes[ at ]email.net> 4/26/2007 11:13:52 PM There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? > - -- > Iron Feliks > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGMQGBIEgejQPpTu4RCuRUAJ46sC4rtMkXMVAt1XbczUkDdvjzIgCfW7gy > uCbJ3TCjLN/t/gGXI/iRLnw= > =FY/f > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. Feliks Dzerzhinsky <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> 4/27/2007 12:13:45 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 John Barnes wrote: [Quoted Text] > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player > > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message > news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post? - -- Iron Feliks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk= =Xz0D -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. Feliks Dzerzhinsky <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> 4/27/2007 12:21:41 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Colin Barnhorst wrote: [Quoted Text] > What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that > they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine. > 32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps. Thunking wasn't good then and it isn't good now. How much baggage from the past do we need to drag with us? What is the point of having a 64 bit OS if there are few 64 bit apps available? The only time software developers will get off their butts and produce 64 bit apps is if one of their competitors does it. - -- Iron Feliks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGMUIVIEgejQPpTu4RCmK7AJ99iZ/+p434cBA4ywliJE249RnzUACgpV6s 2gjQJhMh8AEAU8Zz00wxSMw= =QD3h -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)[ at ]msn.com> 4/27/2007 12:36:25 AM So write some 64bit apps and give them the challenge. -- Colin Barnhorst MVP Virtual Machine "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message news:OzAhKIGiHHA.5052[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > Colin Barnhorst wrote: >> What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that >> they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine. >> > 32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps. Thunking wasn't > good then and it isn't good now. > > How much baggage from the past do we need to drag with us? What is the > point of having a 64 bit OS if there are few 64 bit apps available? > > The only time software developers will get off their butts and produce > 64 bit apps is if one of their competitors does it. > > - -- > Iron Feliks > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGMUIVIEgejQPpTu4RCmK7AJ99iZ/+p434cBA4ywliJE249RnzUACgpV6s > 2gjQJhMh8AEAU8Zz00wxSMw= > =QD3h > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. Carlos 4/27/2007 1:04:05 AM Feliks: I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit. But I don't think I would benefit from that. On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc. And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.) from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc. John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits apps. Carlos "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote: [Quoted Text] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > John Barnes wrote: > > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to > > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you > > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player > > > > > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message > > news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? > > > Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with > Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post? > - -- > Iron Feliks > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr > ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk= > =Xz0D > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >

Re: A not so gentle hint. "John Barnes" <jbarnes[ at ]email.net> 4/27/2007 1:20:09 AM Thanks Carlos, you do have 3 64-bit dll's in Office (home and student) :-) "Carlos" <Carlos[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:63A83653-69FD-4D5F-8034-B6F41E6ED756[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Feliks: > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit. > But I don't think I would benefit from that. > On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting > there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit > variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc. > And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.) > from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc. > John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to > jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits > apps. > Carlos > > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA512 >> >> John Barnes wrote: >> > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to >> > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you >> > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player >> > >> > >> > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message >> > news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, >> > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 >> > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? >> >> >> Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with >> Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post? >> - -- >> Iron Feliks >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr >> ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk= >> =Xz0D >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>

Re: A not so gentle hint. Feliks Dzerzhinsky <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> 4/27/2007 1:20:39 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Colin Barnhorst wrote: [Quoted Text] > So write some 64bit apps and give them the challenge. > ROTFL! I don't think I have enough market share to have much of an impact (and my programming skills suck). Maybe if the folks at Open Office did it, it would get the attention of MS. - -- Iron Feliks -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGMU/nIEgejQPpTu4RCj44AKCogjrx86of9d++L0QorwP0OLyeewCfbDhM oqK+HZzcljsUF00J4Zprntc= =ZoA/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: A not so gentle hint. Carlos 4/27/2007 2:22:00 AM Well. That's a start. Have a good night in Washington, John. Gotta go to sleep now, it is almost midnight here. Carlos "John Barnes" wrote: [Quoted Text] > Thanks Carlos, you do have 3 64-bit dll's in Office (home and student) :-) > > "Carlos" <Carlos[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:63A83653-69FD-4D5F-8034-B6F41E6ED756[ at ]microsoft.com... > > Feliks: > > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit. > > But I don't think I would benefit from that. > > On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting > > there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit > > variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc. > > And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.) > > from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc. > > John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to > > jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits > > apps. > > Carlos > > > > > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote: > > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA512 > >> > >> John Barnes wrote: > >> > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to > >> > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you > >> > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player > >> > > >> > > >> > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message > >> > news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >> > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > >> > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > >> > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? > >> > >> > >> Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with > >> Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post? > >> - -- > >> Iron Feliks > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) > >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > >> > >> iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr > >> ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk= > >> =Xz0D > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> > >

Re: A not so gentle hint. XS11E <xs11eNO[ at ]SPAMyahoo.com> 4/27/2007 2:51:28 AM Carlos <Carlos[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: [Quoted Text] > Feliks: > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit. > But I don't think I would benefit from that. Of course not. I've moved from Office 2.0 to Office 2007, from an Intel 386DX-25 to an AMD Athlon64 3400+ and I'm STILL creating Word documents at 35 wpm. What in the world good does anyone think a faster computer would do? My computer is faster than I can type, faster than it can read a CD, faster than it can download email from a POP server, etc. etc. etc. Exactly the same as the earliest days of computers, we're all I/O bound and 64 bit apps aren't going to help one bit. If you're one of the .01% who are running CAD applications or billion megabit Excel spread sheets you might save 10 seconds a year on switching to 64 bit apps but that's not most of us, all we're talking about is BIGGER, SHINIER, FASTER for bragging rights. The "Mine's bigger than yours" type of silliness.

Re: A not so gentle hint. XS11E <xs11eNO[ at ]SPAMyahoo.com> 4/27/2007 2:52:52 AM Feliks Dzerzhinsky <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote: [Quoted Text] > 32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps. Do you have some evidence to prove that? I'd like to see some numbers if you have some?

Re: A not so gentle hint. "Doug Forster" <nobody[ at ]nowhere,com> 4/27/2007 2:58:12 AM [Quoted Text] > can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? Sql Server 2005 just to answer your question In fact any managed (.NET) app will automatically compile and run 64 bit on a 64 bit OS without any changes at all. I suspect that Microsoft envisages this to be the future rather than specifically compiled 64 bit native code. Cheers Doug Forster

Re: A not so gentle hint. "John Hall" <john-news3[ at ]camtechconsultants.com> 4/27/2007 8:29:11 AM "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? Windows debugging tools (windbg, etc). John

Re: A not so gentle hint. Carlos 4/27/2007 11:30:01 AM Hi, XS11E: I was by no means asking MS for a 64-bit Office. I do heavy work on Excel and sometimes I have to wait (wait>=1 minute) while it is recalculating a spreadsheet. Whether that is due to is 32-bitness, poor programming practices, bloated software or need for more memory, well... I don't know. I am happy with 32-bit apps that run fine on 64-bit Vista. I would like Java and Flash running on IE64 but that is just a wish, not a request. Carlos "XS11E" wrote: [Quoted Text] > Carlos <Carlos[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: > > > Feliks: > > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit. > > But I don't think I would benefit from that. > > Of course not. I've moved from Office 2.0 to Office 2007, from an > Intel 386DX-25 to an AMD Athlon64 3400+ and I'm STILL creating Word > documents at 35 wpm. What in the world good does anyone think a faster > computer would do? My computer is faster than I can type, faster than > it can read a CD, faster than it can download email from a POP server, > etc. etc. etc. > > Exactly the same as the earliest days of computers, we're all I/O bound > and 64 bit apps aren't going to help one bit. > > If you're one of the .01% who are running CAD applications or billion > megabit Excel spread sheets you might save 10 seconds a year on > switching to 64 bit apps but that's not most of us, all we're talking > about is BIGGER, SHINIER, FASTER for bragging rights. > > The "Mine's bigger than yours" type of silliness. > > > >

Re: A not so gentle hint. "Spectre" <idonotwantto[ at ]ddabloodyemailaddress.ok> 4/27/2007 3:09:57 PM Windows Media Encoder x64 Edition? What do I win? "John Hall" <john-news3[ at ]camtechconsultants.com> wrote in message news:558b.4631b457.607c5[ at ]mail.cambridgetechgroup.com... [Quoted Text] > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <fdzerzhinsky[ at ]kgb.su> wrote in message > news:Og9EMuDiHHA.1240[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >> It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player, >> but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64 >> bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS? > > Windows debugging tools (windbg, etc). > > John >

Re: A not so gentle hint. "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <chuckw[ at ]online.microsoft.com> 4/27/2007 7:30:07 PM X64 is largely about memory usage, not performance. There's some performance improvements mostly because 64-bit native application can assume they are running on a modern CPU and not some crazy old P5-era chip, but the biggest new feature is the ability to address more than 2 GBs of memory. Computers now routinely come with 2 GB of RAM. Higher-end systems have 4 GB or more. Standard 32-bit applications running on standard 32-bit versions of Windows will never be able to make use of more than 2 GB, and even that is actually pretty hard to achieve because there are other things you do with the virtual memory address space than just use physical memory. There is a transition technology that we'll likely see most developers use before they go all-out and create 64-bit native applications. It's called "LARGEADDRESSAWARE". It's been around on 32-bit versions of Windows for years (the /3gb switch), but it's a bit twitchy to use and can only let 32-bit applications get up to 3 GB. On X64 versions of Windows, such 32-bit LARGEADDRESSAWARE applications can use up to 4 GB without requiring any weird boot modes. In other words, 64-bit versions of Windows have an advantage over 32-bit versions even just running 32-bit applications. Ceratinly there is some performance overhead of the WOW layer, but it's nothing like the bad old days of Win16 thunking on Win32. -- Chuck Walbourn SDE, XNA Developer Connection This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.