WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage Pierluigi 6/8/2007 9:01:02 AM Hi everybody. SCENARIO: Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; some 64-Bit application running; actual RAM usage 5 GB. QUESTION: If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does it Work ? I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM between the 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable memory limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not the point of my question) If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. Thank you in advance. Pierluigi

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "Tom Ferguson" <tom.msmvp[ at ]gmail.com> 6/8/2007 3:34:11 PM http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64/wow64_implementation_details.asp http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx Tom MSMVP Windows Shell/User "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Hi everybody. > > SCENARIO: > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; > some 64-Bit application running; > actual RAM usage 5 GB. > > QUESTION: > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does > it Work ? > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM > between the > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable > memory > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not > the > point of my question) > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. > > Thank you in advance. > > Pierluigi

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage Pierluigi 6/8/2007 3:53:02 PM Hi Tom, thank you very much for your replay. I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB (in very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from every physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. "Tom Ferguson" wrote: [Quoted Text] > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64/wow64_implementation_details.asp > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx > > Tom > MSMVP > Windows Shell/User > > > > "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... > > Hi everybody. > > > > SCENARIO: > > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; > > some 64-Bit application running; > > actual RAM usage 5 GB. > > > > QUESTION: > > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does > > it Work ? > > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM > > between the > > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable > > memory > > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not > > the > > point of my question) > > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Pierluigi > >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 6/9/2007 12:47:49 AM You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB application memory address space. The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless of how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has available a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit applications have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of memory. Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice I'm NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another 32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions of any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it keeps for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/xperts64 http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Hi Tom, > thank you very much for your replay. > > I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. > I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB (in > very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" > but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from every > physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. > > "Tom Ferguson" wrote: > >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64/wow64_implementation_details.asp >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >> >> Tom >> MSMVP >> Windows Shell/User >> >> >> >> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >> > Hi everybody. >> > >> > SCENARIO: >> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >> > some 64-Bit application running; >> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >> > >> > QUESTION: >> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does >> > it Work ? >> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >> > between the >> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >> > memory >> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not >> > the >> > point of my question) >> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >> > >> > Thank you in advance. >> > >> > Pierluigi >> >>

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage Darrellg[ at ]online.microsoft.com ("Darrell Gorter[MSFT]") 6/9/2007 6:12:39 PM Hello Charlie, Good answer and a better one than I could have given. Thanks, Darrell Gorter[MSFT] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights -------------------- [Quoted Text] >From: "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> >References: <861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com> <#1YL6JeqHHA.3356[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >In-Reply-To: <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >Subject: Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage >Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:47:49 -0700 >Lines: 81 >Message-ID: <F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46[ at ]microsoft.com> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386 >X-MS-CommunityGroup-PostID: {F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46} >X-MS-CommunityGroup-ThreadID: 861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818 >X-MS-CommunityGroup-ParentID: 8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB >Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl >Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general:7219 >NNTP-Posting-Host: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl 127.0.0.1 >X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general > >You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that >relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use > >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB >application memory address space. > >The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless of >how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has available >a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take >advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a >conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit applications >have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of >memory. > >Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice I'm >NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is >large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another >32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. > >So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions of >any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it keeps >for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the >job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS >controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. > >-- >Charlie. >http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel > > >"Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... >> Hi Tom, >> thank you very much for your replay. >> >> I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. >> I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB (in >> very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" >> but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from every >> physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. >> >> "Tom Ferguson" wrote: >> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64 /wow64_implementation_details.asp >>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >>> >>> Tom >>> MSMVP >>> Windows Shell/User >>> >>> >>> >>> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> > Hi everybody. >>> > >>> > SCENARIO: >>> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >>> > some 64-Bit application running; >>> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >>> > >>> > QUESTION: >>> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does >>> > it Work ? >>> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >>> > between the >>> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >>> > memory >>> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not >>> > the >>> > point of my question) >>> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >>> > >>> > Thank you in advance. >>> > >>> > Pierluigi >>> >>> > >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 6/10/2007 6:05:50 PM Thanks, Darrell. Though I suspect you are being modest - we've all appreciated the answers you've provided here over the time we've been live. You get all the tough ones - I just cherry pick the easy ones like this. ;) -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/xperts64 http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel ""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg[ at ]online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:ichjJHsqHHA.3656[ at ]TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Hello Charlie, > Good answer and a better one than I could have given. > Thanks, > Darrell Gorter[MSFT] > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights > -------------------- >>From: "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> >>References: <861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com> > <#1YL6JeqHHA.3356[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> > <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>In-Reply-To: <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>Subject: Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage >>Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:47:49 -0700 >>Lines: 81 >>Message-ID: <F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46[ at ]microsoft.com> >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> format=flowed; >> charset="utf-8"; >> reply-type=original >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386 >>X-MS-CommunityGroup-PostID: {F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46} >>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ThreadID: 861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818 >>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ParentID: 8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB >>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl >>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general:7219 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl 127.0.0.1 >>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >> >>You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that >>relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use >> >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB >>application memory address space. >> >>The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless > of >>how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has > available >>a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take >>advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a >>conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit applications >>have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of >>memory. >> >>Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice I'm >>NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is >>large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another >>32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. >> >>So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions > of >>any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it keeps >>for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the >>job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS >>controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. >> >>-- >>Charlie. >>http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >>http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel >> >> >>"Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> Hi Tom, >>> thank you very much for your replay. >>> >>> I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. >>> I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB > (in >>> very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" >>> but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from >>> every >>> physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. >>> >>> "Tom Ferguson" wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >>>> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64 > /wow64_implementation_details.asp >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> MSMVP >>>> Windows Shell/User >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> > Hi everybody. >>>> > >>>> > SCENARIO: >>>> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >>>> > some 64-Bit application running; >>>> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >>>> > >>>> > QUESTION: >>>> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does >>>> > it Work ? >>>> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >>>> > between the >>>> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >>>> > memory >>>> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not >>>> > the >>>> > point of my question) >>>> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >>>> > >>>> > Thank you in advance. >>>> > >>>> > Pierluigi >>>> >>>> >> >> >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "John Barnes" <jbarnes[ at ]email.net> 6/12/2007 12:08:24 AM Now, who's being modest. You have sure shown the light on your share of hard problems. "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message news:4CC319A9-694B-490F-80ED-F0DA64FC387C[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Thanks, Darrell. Though I suspect you are being modest - we've all > appreciated the answers you've provided here over the time we've been > live. You get all the tough ones - I just cherry pick the easy ones like > this. ;) > > -- > Charlie. > http://msmvps.com/xperts64 > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel > > > ""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg[ at ]online.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:ichjJHsqHHA.3656[ at ]TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl... >> Hello Charlie, >> Good answer and a better one than I could have given. >> Thanks, >> Darrell Gorter[MSFT] >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no >> rights >> -------------------- >>>From: "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> >>>References: <861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com> >> <#1YL6JeqHHA.3356[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> >> <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>In-Reply-To: <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>Subject: Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage >>>Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:47:49 -0700 >>>Lines: 81 >>>Message-ID: <F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>>Content-Type: text/plain; >>> format=flowed; >>> charset="utf-8"; >>> reply-type=original >>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>X-Priority: 3 >>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386 >>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386 >>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-PostID: {F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46} >>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ThreadID: 861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818 >>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ParentID: 8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB >>>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >>>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl >>>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general:7219 >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl 127.0.0.1 >>>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >>> >>>You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that >>>relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use >>> >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB >>>application memory address space. >>> >>>The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless >> of >>>how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has >> available >>>a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take >>>advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a >>>conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit >>>applications >>>have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of >>>memory. >>> >>>Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice >>>I'm >>>NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is >>>large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another >>>32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. >>> >>>So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions >> of >>>any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it >>>keeps >>>for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the >>>job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS >>>controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. >>> >>>-- >>>Charlie. >>>http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >>>http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel >>> >>> >>>"Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> Hi Tom, >>>> thank you very much for your replay. >>>> >>>> I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. >>>> I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB >> (in >>>> very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" >>>> but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from >>>> every >>>> physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. >>>> >>>> "Tom Ferguson" wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >>>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >>>>> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64 >> /wow64_implementation_details.asp >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> MSMVP >>>>> Windows Shell/User >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> > Hi everybody. >>>>> > >>>>> > SCENARIO: >>>>> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >>>>> > some 64-Bit application running; >>>>> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >>>>> > >>>>> > QUESTION: >>>>> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does >>>>> > it Work ? >>>>> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >>>>> > between the >>>>> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >>>>> > memory >>>>> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not >>>>> > the >>>>> > point of my question) >>>>> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >>>>> > >>>>> > Thank you in advance. >>>>> > >>>>> > Pierluigi >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 6/12/2007 5:49:10 AM Oh, we all struggle along here. And goodness knows we have had some interesting problems to discover the answers to. My favourite problem to this day, however, is still the 32-bit internet connectivity fix for nvidia mobos. I wish I could remember who originally came up with the solution, but it's lost in antiquity now. Which doesn't mean I haven't had to haul that answer out lately - it still comes up! -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/xperts64 http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel "John Barnes" <jbarnes[ at ]email.net> wrote in message news:eoAMTXIrHHA.3456[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Now, who's being modest. You have sure shown the light on your share of > hard problems. > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message > news:4CC319A9-694B-490F-80ED-F0DA64FC387C[ at ]microsoft.com... >> Thanks, Darrell. Though I suspect you are being modest - we've all >> appreciated the answers you've provided here over the time we've been >> live. You get all the tough ones - I just cherry pick the easy ones like >> this. ;) >> >> -- >> Charlie. >> http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel >> >> >> ""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg[ at ]online.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:ichjJHsqHHA.3656[ at ]TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl... >>> Hello Charlie, >>> Good answer and a better one than I could have given. >>> Thanks, >>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT] >>> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no >>> rights >>> -------------------- >>>>From: "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> >>>>References: <861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com> >>> <#1YL6JeqHHA.3356[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> >>> <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>>In-Reply-To: <8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>>Subject: Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage >>>>Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:47:49 -0700 >>>>Lines: 81 >>>>Message-ID: <F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46[ at ]microsoft.com> >>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>>>Content-Type: text/plain; >>>> format=flowed; >>>> charset="utf-8"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>X-Priority: 3 >>>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386 >>>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386 >>>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-PostID: {F692A23B-28E2-48F7-9EB0-3964F269EB46} >>>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ThreadID: 861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818 >>>>X-MS-CommunityGroup-ParentID: 8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB >>>>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >>>>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl >>>>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general:7219 >>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl 127.0.0.1 >>>>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general >>>> >>>>You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that >>>>relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can >>>>use >>>> >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB >>>>application memory address space. >>>> >>>>The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. >>>>Regardless >>> of >>>>how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has >>> available >>>>a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take >>>>advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a >>>>conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit >>>>applications >>>>have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of >>>>memory. >>>> >>>>Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice >>>>I'm >>>>NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is >>>>large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another >>>>32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. >>>> >>>>So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what >>>>portions >>> of >>>>any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it >>>>keeps >>>>for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is >>>>the >>>>job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS >>>>controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Charlie. >>>>http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >>>>http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel >>>> >>>> >>>>"Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> Hi Tom, >>>>> thank you very much for your replay. >>>>> >>>>> I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. >>>>> I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB >>> (in >>>>> very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" >>>>> but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from >>>>> every >>>>> physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical >>>>> RAM. >>>>> >>>>> "Tom Ferguson" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >>>>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >>>>>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64 >>> /wow64_implementation_details.asp >>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> MSMVP >>>>>> Windows Shell/User >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>>> > Hi everybody. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > SCENARIO: >>>>>> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >>>>>> > some 64-Bit application running; >>>>>> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > QUESTION: >>>>>> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, >>>>>> > does >>>>>> > it Work ? >>>>>> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >>>>>> > between the >>>>>> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >>>>>> > memory >>>>>> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is >>>>>> > not >>>>>> > the >>>>>> > point of my question) >>>>>> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Thank you in advance. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Pierluigi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage Pierluigi 6/12/2007 8:34:09 AM Hi Charlie, your answer is very apprecieted. I think you are right about my mis-undertstanding of how memory addressing works. And ... sorry but I would like to be sure about understanding your answer (sorry but I'm from italy and my english is not so well). So: in case I use a 32 BIT OS like Windows2003 Enterprise Edition, plus, numerous 32 bit legacy application using (each application) from 2 to 4 GB memory, can I benefit installing more than 4 GB of RAM on the server ? Please.... be patient...but I would like to resolve my doubts once for all.... Pierluigi "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote: [Quoted Text] > You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that > relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use > >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB > application memory address space. > > The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless of > how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has available > a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take > advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a > conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit applications > have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of > memory. > > Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice I'm > NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is > large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another > 32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. > > So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions of > any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it keeps > for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the > job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS > controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. > > -- > Charlie. > http://msmvps.com/xperts64 > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel > > > "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... > > Hi Tom, > > thank you very much for your replay. > > > > I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. > > I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB (in > > very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" > > but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from every > > physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. > > > > "Tom Ferguson" wrote: > > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx > >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx > >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64/wow64_implementation_details.asp > >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx > >> > >> Tom > >> MSMVP > >> Windows Shell/User > >> > >> > >> > >> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > >> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... > >> > Hi everybody. > >> > > >> > SCENARIO: > >> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; > >> > some 64-Bit application running; > >> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. > >> > > >> > QUESTION: > >> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does > >> > it Work ? > >> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM > >> > between the > >> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable > >> > memory > >> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not > >> > the > >> > point of my question) > >> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. > >> > > >> > Thank you in advance. > >> > > >> > Pierluigi > >> > >> >

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie[ at ]mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> 6/12/2007 1:21:42 PM Using a 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition, you can take advantage of >4gb of RAM. But _only_ by using something called PAE which is a method for swapping chunks of memory in and out of a narrow window within the 4GB of virtual memory address space that is supported by 32-bit Windows. This is of little or no benefit for legacy, conventional, 32-bit programs such as Office, but may provide some benefit for applications written to take explicit advantage of it - SQL Server comes to mind. For running multiple legacy applications as you describe, you won't see much if any benefit. -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64 "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:1C0681D2-53B9-477D-AF17-311914298A0B[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Hi Charlie, > > your answer is very apprecieted. > > I think you are right about my mis-undertstanding of how memory addressing > works. > > And ... sorry but I would like to be sure about understanding your answer > (sorry but I'm from italy and my english is not so well). > > So: in case I use a 32 BIT OS like Windows2003 Enterprise Edition, plus, > numerous 32 bit legacy application using (each application) from 2 to 4 GB > memory, can I benefit installing more than 4 GB of RAM on the server ? > > Please.... be patient...but I would like to resolve my doubts once for > all.... > > Pierluigi > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote: > >> You have a mis-understanding of how memory addressing works and how that >> relates to RAM. They are not the same thing. x64 Windows versions can use >> >4GB of RAM (how much depends on the version), and all have an 8 TB >> application memory address space. >> >> The OS controls what applications are using what physical RAM. Regardless >> of >> how much physical RAM you have, however, a 32-bit application has >> available >> a 4 GB flat memory address space. If the application is written to take >> advantage of all the memory available, it will see 4GB. If it is a >> conventional 32-bit application, it will only see 2GB. 32-bit >> applications >> have to be compiled with the LARGEMEMORYADDRESSAWARE flag to see >2GB of >> memory. >> >> Now, if you load a 64-bit application that uses 5 GB of memory (notice >> I'm >> NOT saying RAM here), and then want to load a 32-bit application that is >> large memory aware, it will see 4GB of memory. If you then load another >> 32-bit application, it will see it's own 4 GB memory address space. >> >> So, what does this have to do with RAM? Windows will decide what portions >> of >> any of those applications are running in RAM, what portion of RAM it >> keeps >> for itself, and what portion of any application it swaps out. This is the >> job of the OS. The application doesn't use RAM, it uses memory. The OS >> controls what memory is actually used for what purpose. >> >> -- >> Charlie. >> http://msmvps.com/xperts64 >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel >> >> >> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:8D097095-0703-4745-8B9D-E2772609AEAB[ at ]microsoft.com... >> > Hi Tom, >> > thank you very much for your replay. >> > >> > I read these articles before, but they didn't answer my question. >> > I understand that my 32 bit application can take advantage of max 4 GB >> > (in >> > very particular condition) of the "Virtual Address Space" >> > but I didn't understand if this "Virtaule Address" can be kept from >> > every >> > physical address space in case I have more than 4 GB of Physical RAM. >> > >> > "Tom Ferguson" wrote: >> > >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bit/WoW64_bestprac.mspx >> >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/win64/win64/wow64_implementation_details.asp >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx >> >> >> >> Tom >> >> MSMVP >> >> Windows Shell/User >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Pierluigi" <Pierluigi[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> >> news:861ED15A-74E0-4358-852E-7B111F2F2818[ at ]microsoft.com... >> >> > Hi everybody. >> >> > >> >> > SCENARIO: >> >> > Server with Windows x64 and 8 GB of physical ram; >> >> > some 64-Bit application running; >> >> > actual RAM usage 5 GB. >> >> > >> >> > QUESTION: >> >> > If I add a (WOW64 compatible) 32bit application on this server, does >> >> > it Work ? >> >> > I mean: is WOW64 able to give some memory space of Physical RAM >> >> > between the >> >> > 5th and the 8th gigabytes (I Know about the 2 to 4 GB adressable >> >> > memory >> >> > limitation of the majority of the 32 bit application but...it is not >> >> > the >> >> > point of my question) >> >> > If yes I'll be greatfull for some documentation link about it. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you in advance. >> >> > >> >> > Pierluigi >> >> >> >> >>

Re: WOW64 and Actual Phisical RAM Usage jorgen <jorgen[ at ]na.invalid> 6/12/2007 2:10:14 PM Charlie Russel - MVP wrote: [Quoted Text] > Using a 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition, you > can take advantage of >4gb of RAM. But _only_ by using something called > PAE which is a method for swapping chunks of memory in and out of a > narrow window within the 4GB of virtual memory address space that is > supported by 32-bit Windows. This is of little or no benefit for legacy, > conventional, 32-bit programs such as Office, but may provide some > benefit for applications written to take explicit advantage of it - SQL > Server comes to mind. > > For running multiple legacy applications as you describe, you won't see > much if any benefit. > That is not what you initially said, was it? Anyways, the process only sees virtual addresses, all going from 0-4GB, regardless where in physical memory it resides. Only the memory manager sees the 36-bit physical address, and therefore the application doesn't need to be written differently.