ASR with No Floppy Jerry Foley 7/6/2007 11:18:01 AM How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive. Thanks Jerry

Re: ASR with No Floppy John John <audetweld[ at ]nbnet.nb.ca> 7/6/2007 12:46:14 PM Jerry Foley wrote: [Quoted Text] > How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but > no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive. Copy the asr.sif and asrpnp.sif files located in the %systemroot%\repair directory to another computer with a floppy drive, then copy those files onto a floppy disk. http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&q=asr.sif+ You cannot do an ASR Restore without a floppy diskette so relying on the above may be tantamount to having a spare tire but no wheel wrench to change the tire, you're in a fine pickle if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere at midnight! Usually when you need to rely on ASR to restore your computer things are not going too well and all you need is another hassle like having to run about trying to find a diskette drive for the computer! A fine annoying mess on a fine Saturday morning at 1:00AM! Fit the computer with a floppy drive now, they only cost about $10. If you cannot fit a floppy to the computer get a USB floppy drive, but be aware that only a handful of USB floppies are compatible with the ASR restore process: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196 If you do get a USB drive test it before disaster strikes! John

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Harry Ohrn" <harry---[ at ]webtree.ca> 7/6/2007 3:01:11 PM Isn't the NTBackup program a real POS? Because creating system backups is so important (at least to me) I strongly urge people to find a decent third party imaging program. My personal favourite is Acronis TrueImage. No floppy drive required and you can burn the system image directly to DVD or a USB drive and restore from them easily as well. -- Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User] www.webtree.ca/windowsxp "Jerry Foley" <JerryFoley[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw > but > no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB > drive. > Thanks > Jerry

Re: ASR with No Floppy Sharon F <sharonfDEL[ at ]ETEmvps.org> 7/6/2007 3:57:42 PM On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:18:01 -0700, Jerry Foley wrote: [Quoted Text] > How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but > no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive. > Thanks > Jerry I agree with Harry. The best thing (only thing) going for NTBackup is that it's free. Even if you do have a floppy drive there are many more elegant solutions available at various price levels. I also like Acronis. Although it is primarily a complete recovery solution, it can be relied on for backup too as its own "explorer" can be used to full out a few folders or files from the larger image. -- Sharon F MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Vanguard" <no[ at ]mail.invalid> 7/6/2007 6:12:28 PM "Jerry Foley" wrote in message news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd > rw but > no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB > drive. My recollection of ASR is that it simply helped direct a minimal fresh install of Windows which then ran the restore from the full backup (required) along with any incremental or differentials after the full backup and then rebooted to give you your full Windows setup again (well, as near to the setup that you had when using logical file backups versus sector-by-sector partition images). Wow, golly gee, what a big load of nothing. Just do a fresh install of Windows yourself using the installation CD (or restore image) and then do the restore(s) yourself. Obviously since Windows gets reinstalled as a fresh copy whether using ASR or doing it manually yourself, your backups must be in a different partition or different media than the one in which the OS resided and where it is getting reinstalled.

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Jim" <j.n[ at ]nospam.com> 7/6/2007 7:15:06 PM "Jerry Foley" <JerryFoley[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw > but > no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB > drive. > Thanks > Jerry You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB. Jim

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> 7/7/2007 12:59:06 PM Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places. Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems. Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer 'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an image, and they just look at you blandly. Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range from 'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be bothered to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying me'. Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong terminology. When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for programs that have 'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will end up down the road of being tied to a procedure they do not fully understand, and where the procedure is being used as a cure instead of prevention. Instead of 'backing up', we should refer to 'making an image' where an OS and support programs are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' regarding user data. In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage and Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very different environment of industry/commerce. "Jim" <j.n[ at ]nospam.com> wrote in message news:Zwwji.25478$C96.17624[ at ]newssvr23.news.prodigy.net... [Quoted Text] > > "Jerry Foley" <JerryFoley[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... >> How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw >> but >> no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB >> drive. >> Thanks >> Jerry > You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB. > Jim > -- Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Harry Ohrn" <harry---[ at ]webtree.ca> 7/7/2007 3:53:12 PM Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it isn't including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the ValueAdd directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with the distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point. NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without a floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this program has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that classifies it to be at the top of the POS list of backup programs. -- Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User] www.webtree.ca/windowsxp "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> wrote in message news:OdKNlaJwHHA.5008[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for > the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places. > > Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users > make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that > not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems. > > Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any > subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer > 'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an > image, and they just look at you blandly. > > Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range > from 'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be > bothered to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying > me'. > > Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong > terminology. When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for > programs that have 'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will > end up down the road of being tied to a procedure they do not fully > understand, and where the procedure is being used as a cure instead of > prevention. Instead of 'backing up', we should refer to 'making an image' > where an OS and support programs are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' > regarding user data. > > In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage > and Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very > different environment of industry/commerce. > > > "Jim" <j.n[ at ]nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Zwwji.25478$C96.17624[ at ]newssvr23.news.prodigy.net... >> >> "Jerry Foley" <JerryFoley[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw >>> but >>> no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB >>> drive. >>> Thanks >>> Jerry >> You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB. >> Jim >> > > -- > > > Mike Hall > MS MVP Windows Shell/User > http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/ > > >

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Vanguard" <no[ at ]mail.invalid> 7/7/2007 5:57:57 PM "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> wrote in message news:OdKNlaJwHHA.5008[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful > for the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right > places. > > Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average > users make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More > often that not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems. <snip> What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with ANY backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any changes or files that were created after the last backup. You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same users don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even if the backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were changed after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file versioning system; i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no old copy left around from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista tries to do a basic file versioning scheme but it really is just an automatic backup scheme and is still not the same as a file versioning system. So no matter what scheme a Windows user uses, they can and probably will lose files, especially the latest created or modified files. As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and getting a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a [logical file] backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare from them. If a user knows about performing backups and does them regularly, if not daily or before and after every major OS or app change, then they already know when it is appropriate to do the restores and what they will lose in those restores.

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> 7/9/2007 12:42:37 PM I wasn't replying to the OP.. I was making some points to those who answered.. There are many people out there who do not really understand the concept of backing up, making images, saving data.. they do not know what to programs to use, or how to recover the data.. they start procedures which are not applicable to what they are trying to achieve.. they are presented with options for which there is no obvious answer and most likely at a time when they can't use the computer to find a good one.. My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and instructions that come up on screen are failing these people.. "Vanguard" <no[ at ]mail.invalid> wrote in message news:usKPTBMwHHA.4640[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> wrote in message > news:OdKNlaJwHHA.5008[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for >> the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places. >> >> Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users >> make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that >> not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems. > > <snip> > > What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use > ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal > instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and > the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and > perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with ANY > backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any changes > or files that were created after the last backup. > > You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same users > don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even if the > backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were changed > after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file versioning system; > i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no old copy left around > from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista tries to do a basic file > versioning scheme but it really is just an automatic backup scheme and is > still not the same as a file versioning system. So no matter what scheme > a Windows user uses, they can and probably will lose files, especially the > latest created or modified files. > > As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and getting > a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a [logical file] > backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare from them. If a > user knows about performing backups and does them regularly, if not daily > or before and after every major OS or app change, then they already know > when it is appropriate to do the restores and what they will lose in those > restores. > -- Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> 7/9/2007 12:50:02 PM Harry None of the versions of MS Backup were ever compatible with each other.. I remember problems cropping up when users moved from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win ME to XP.. they find a backup disk from the old days (the easy part) but have all kinds of problems finding a computer with the older OS running and to which they can get access.. I have never been given a reasonable answer as to why MS Backup was not compatible in any direction.. however, I was told by a Sys Admin one time that NTBackup was very good if used in the right environment.. my remark re 'what planet did this apply to' ended the conversation abruptly, so I am still somewhat in the dark.. "Harry Ohrn" <harry---[ at ]webtree.ca> wrote in message news:%23wAh37KwHHA.3684[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up, > y'all. NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it > isn't including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the > ValueAdd directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with > the distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't > bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point. > > NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not > restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not > complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without > a floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this > program has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that > classifies it to be at the top of the POS list of backup programs. > > -- > > > Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User] > www.webtree.ca/windowsxp > > > "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> wrote in message > news:OdKNlaJwHHA.5008[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for >> the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places. >> >> Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users >> make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that >> not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems. >> >> Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any >> subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer >> 'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an >> image, and they just look at you blandly. >> >> Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range >> from 'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be >> bothered to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying >> me'. >> >> Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong >> terminology. When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for >> programs that have 'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will >> end up down the road of being tied to a procedure they do not fully >> understand, and where the procedure is being used as a cure instead of >> prevention. Instead of 'backing up', we should refer to 'making an image' >> where an OS and support programs are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' >> regarding user data. >> >> In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage >> and Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very >> different environment of industry/commerce. >> >> >> "Jim" <j.n[ at ]nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Zwwji.25478$C96.17624[ at ]newssvr23.news.prodigy.net... >>> >>> "Jerry Foley" <JerryFoley[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>> news:4AF06730-E0E0-4B0A-A147-E750F49A3135[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd >>>> rw but >>>> no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB >>>> drive. >>>> Thanks >>>> Jerry >>> You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB. >>> Jim >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> Mike Hall >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/ >> >> >> > > -- Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Vanguard" <no[ at ]mail.invalid> 7/10/2007 4:56:07 AM "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message news:uQkkxaiwHHA.3720[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > > My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages > and instructions that come up on screen are failing these people.. Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click.

Re: ASR with No Floppy "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall[ at ]mvps.org> 7/11/2007 12:56:45 AM I have my keyboard scroll button set just for that purpose.. :-) "Vanguard" <no[ at ]mail.invalid> wrote in message news:ec3bc6qwHHA.5008[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > "Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message > news:uQkkxaiwHHA.3720[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> >> My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and >> instructions that come up on screen are failing these people.. > > Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the > documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users > will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click. > -- Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/