How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/17/2007 10:23:30 PM I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to swap backups. If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive rather than the boot drive. Questions: 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or software setup? 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? Thanks so much, Dave

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 6/17/2007 10:43:23 PM This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the swapping without downing the computer. -- Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] >I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development in >most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I understand >the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. > > I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three > Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive so I > can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the tray which > is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and then insert the > previous drive that was offsite and want it to be brought up to date as a > bootable drive for the next time I want to swap backups. > > If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the boot > drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in regards > to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive rather > than the boot drive. > > Questions: > > 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this > type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any > particularly good raid links you can recommend? > > 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the > mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive to > be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you normally > run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or software setup? > > 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS > reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the nForce > 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must I plan to > image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the same as if I > was still using just the one boot drive? > > 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original boot > drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure to boot > the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? > > Thanks so much, > Dave >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 12:56:58 AM If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the first place. Not ready to give up yet. I already image to another drive. What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or the backup drive. Thanks, - Dave "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You > would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, > and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware > controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to > work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. A > better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard drive > to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want another > backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can be done > with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the swapping > without downing the computer. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca > > > "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development in >>most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I understand >>the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >> >> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive so >> I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the tray >> which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and then >> insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be brought up >> to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to swap backups. >> >> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the boot >> drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in regards >> to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive rather >> than the boot drive. >> >> Questions: >> >> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >> >> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the >> mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive to >> be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you >> normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or software >> setup? >> >> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the nForce >> 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must I plan >> to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the same as if >> I was still using just the one boot drive? >> >> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original boot >> drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure to boot >> the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >> >> Thanks so much, >> Dave >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 6/18/2007 3:28:18 AM RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be a backup system. -- Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is some > merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the first > place. Not ready to give up yet. > > I already image to another drive. > > What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite > disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or the > backup drive. > > Thanks, > - Dave > > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. A >> better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard drive >> to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want another >> backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can be done >> with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the swapping >> without downing the computer. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development in >>>most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I understand >>>the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>> >>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive so >>> I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the tray >>> which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and then >>> insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be brought up >>> to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to swap backups. >>> >>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive >>> rather than the boot drive. >>> >>> Questions: >>> >>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>> >>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the >>> mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive >>> to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you >>> normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>> software setup? >>> >>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the nForce >>> 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must I plan >>> to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the same as >>> if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>> >>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure to >>> boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>> >>> Thanks so much, >>> Dave >>> >> > >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> 6/18/2007 3:58:46 AM It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had a RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). Replaced one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and running (scary few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the RAID array, it kept the business up and running with little down time. Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data in case of HD failure. -- Dustin Harper dharper[ at ]vistarip.com http://www.vistarip.com -- "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is > redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps > working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very well > at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be a > backup system. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca > > > "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is some >> merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the first >> place. Not ready to give up yet. >> >> I already image to another drive. >> >> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite >> disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or >> the backup drive. >> >> Thanks, >> - Dave >> >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >>> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >>> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >>> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >>> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. A >>> better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard >>> drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want >>> another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can >>> be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the >>> swapping without downing the computer. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>> >>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to swap >>>> backups. >>>> >>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive >>>> rather than the boot drive. >>>> >>>> Questions: >>>> >>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>> >>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the >>>> mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive >>>> to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you >>>> normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>>> software setup? >>>> >>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must >>>> I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the >>>> same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>> >>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Dave >>>> >>> >> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 4:09:22 AM Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well as they do nowadays. Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this is a bad idea? Thanks, - Dave "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is > redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps > working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very well > at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be a > backup system. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca > > > "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is some >> merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the first >> place. Not ready to give up yet. >> >> I already image to another drive. >> >> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite >> disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or >> the backup drive. >> >> Thanks, >> - Dave >> >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >>> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >>> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >>> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >>> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. A >>> better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard >>> drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want >>> another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can >>> be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the >>> swapping without downing the computer. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>> >>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to swap >>>> backups. >>>> >>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" drive >>>> rather than the boot drive. >>>> >>>> Questions: >>>> >>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>> >>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the >>>> mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive >>>> to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you >>>> normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>>> software setup? >>>> >>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must >>>> I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the >>>> same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>> >>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Dave >>>> >>> >> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 6/18/2007 4:11:03 AM What happened to you is what RAID is for. What the OP wants is to swap multiple disks in and out of a RAID 1 array for backup purposes. Depending on the controller this will eventually lead to corrupted data. The "backup" disk may not be bootable depending on the controller. The amount of time to rebuild the array will probably be longer and cause a bigger performance hit than creating a proper disk image would take. Many RAID controllers can't rebuild an array on the fly anyway. There are many reasons why using RAID for backup isn't a good idea :-) I use RAID in every server I build. They also have a backup strategy that has backups on at least two different media types. -- Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message news:B5C76B0C-6EAB-481E-AD8C-9CAA20E80E1C[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had a > RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). Replaced > one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and running (scary > few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the RAID array, it > kept the business up and running with little down time. > > Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data in > case of HD failure. > > -- > Dustin Harper > dharper[ at ]vistarip.com > http://www.vistarip.com > > -- > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps >> working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very >> well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be >> a backup system. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>> >>> I already image to another drive. >>> >>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite >>> disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or >>> the backup drive. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Dave >>> >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >>>> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >>>> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >>>> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >>>> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. >>>> A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard >>>> drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want >>>> another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can >>>> be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the >>>> swapping without downing the computer. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>> >>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>> swap backups. >>>>> >>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>> >>>>> Questions: >>>>> >>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>>>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>>>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>> >>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must >>>>> you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>>>> software setup? >>>>> >>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work >>>>> the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>> >>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 4:16:49 AM If that's as well as it worked and you could depend on corrupted data I'd file an engineering report to the manufacturer as that is a bad system and there is no reason it should not work better than that. The idea is transparency in action. You just swap drive once a week or whenever as long as they had enough time to resync in the background. Boot sectors included. - Dave "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:E447CD13-FDB3-47EE-B078-18BC54843A8C[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > What happened to you is what RAID is for. What the OP wants is to swap > multiple disks in and out of a RAID 1 array for backup purposes. Depending > on the controller this will eventually lead to corrupted data. The > "backup" disk may not be bootable depending on the controller. The amount > of time to rebuild the array will probably be longer and cause a bigger > performance hit than creating a proper disk image would take. Many RAID > controllers can't rebuild an array on the fly anyway. There are many > reasons why using RAID for backup isn't a good idea :-) I use RAID in > every server I build. They also have a backup strategy that has backups on > at least two different media types. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca > > > "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message > news:B5C76B0C-6EAB-481E-AD8C-9CAA20E80E1C[ at ]microsoft.com... >> It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had a >> RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). >> Replaced one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and running >> (scary few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the RAID >> array, it kept the business up and running with little down time. >> >> Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data in >> case of HD failure. >> >> -- >> Dustin Harper >> dharper[ at ]vistarip.com >> http://www.vistarip.com >> >> -- >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>> to be a backup system. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>> >>>> I already image to another drive. >>>> >>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Dave >>>> >>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't >>>>> bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone >>>>> the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When >>>>> you want another backup put in another drive and create another clone. >>>>> This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need >>>>> to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>>> swap backups. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>> >>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 6/18/2007 4:25:59 AM You asked a question. I gave you an answer based on my experience. I have worked with many different RAID setups in may different OS'. I have actually tried to setup a system similar to what you want to do. It didn't work as well as a disk imaging system with multiple USB drives. -- Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > > Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you > could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an > excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the > notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well as > they do nowadays. > > Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this is > a bad idea? > > Thanks, > - Dave > > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps >> working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very >> well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be >> a backup system. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>> >>> I already image to another drive. >>> >>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite >>> disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or >>> the backup drive. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Dave >>> >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >>>> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >>>> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >>>> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >>>> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. >>>> A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard >>>> drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want >>>> another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can >>>> be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the >>>> swapping without downing the computer. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>> >>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>> swap backups. >>>>> >>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>> >>>>> Questions: >>>>> >>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>>>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>>>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>> >>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must >>>>> you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>>>> software setup? >>>>> >>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work >>>>> the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>> >>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> 6/18/2007 4:35:49 AM RAID is decent for a backup, in the sense for hardware failure. But, it is still onsite, and still in the same PC. Should a fire, or a multiple HD failure, or a format of the array, or corruption, it isn't a backup. If one HD goes bad, it's the other one that saves it. If you have an offsite backup; i.e. a DVD, Tape backup, you have something that isn't connected to the PC. Almost a permanent copy of the files that were there when the backup was created. RAID has it's uses, but as a removable backup device, it's not a good idea. RAID works great in servers. If a HD goes out, you replace it, and you're back up and running (you can even run one, but it's all sweat and sleepless nights until the other gets replaced!). But, if the the whole array goes to hell, and you don't have a tape backup or other... you're screwed. If you take one HD out at night for the backup, and put it back in in the morning, you're still taking a chance. We had a RAID (which saved us!), but we also had a tape backup. The RAID was the easy fix. The tape backup would be safer, but more difficult. RAID isn't meant for off-site backups. It's meant for hardware failure within the PC itself. -- Dustin Harper dharper[ at ]vistarip.com http://www.vistarip.com -- "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:E447CD13-FDB3-47EE-B078-18BC54843A8C[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > What happened to you is what RAID is for. What the OP wants is to swap > multiple disks in and out of a RAID 1 array for backup purposes. Depending > on the controller this will eventually lead to corrupted data. The > "backup" disk may not be bootable depending on the controller. The amount > of time to rebuild the array will probably be longer and cause a bigger > performance hit than creating a proper disk image would take. Many RAID > controllers can't rebuild an array on the fly anyway. There are many > reasons why using RAID for backup isn't a good idea :-) I use RAID in > every server I build. They also have a backup strategy that has backups on > at least two different media types. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca > > > "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message > news:B5C76B0C-6EAB-481E-AD8C-9CAA20E80E1C[ at ]microsoft.com... >> It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had a >> RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). >> Replaced one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and running >> (scary few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the RAID >> array, it kept the business up and running with little down time. >> >> Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data in >> case of HD failure. >> >> -- >> Dustin Harper >> dharper[ at ]vistarip.com >> http://www.vistarip.com >> >> -- >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>> to be a backup system. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>> >>>> I already image to another drive. >>>> >>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Dave >>>> >>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't >>>>> bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone >>>>> the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When >>>>> you want another backup put in another drive and create another clone. >>>>> This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need >>>>> to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>>> swap backups. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>> >>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 4:46:55 AM I would never use USB drives for my primary backup device [too slow] although I do use them as second level offsite copies of my Acronis images but it is a bit of a pain and that is exactly why I am trying to conceptually advance how mirrors could be used for effectively tranparent backups. Drives are plenty reliable to not particularly need redundancy [except in server situations where you could not stand a 1 or 2 hour outage]. For my development desktop I want the convenience of backups not the redundancy as MTBF is already acceptable. If we only did what we were supposed to do then not much new would happen would it? If RAID1 software was coded properly you could get transparent backups as well as the redundant protection you say it was only designed for. I asked 4 questions. Only #4 introduces the concept of extending RAID1 for backup purposes. Bottom line is I would like some suggestions as to whether I should use hard or soft RAID1 on Vista and would like to know what happens if a drive is disconnected [i.e. "fails"] and then I add another drive while the system is running [hot swap] and whether it is typical that you must run utilities to resync the mirror or whether hard or soft setup allows automatic resync with the good drive remaining. Enevitable corruption is a bug not a feature. Questions are: 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or software setup? 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? Thanks, Dave "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:D0039934-1AE8-4A64-807E-B12BD2C68955[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > You asked a question. I gave you an answer based on my experience. I have > worked with many different RAID setups in may different OS'. I have > actually tried to setup a system similar to what you want to do. It didn't > work as well as a disk imaging system with multiple USB drives. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 4:53:33 AM Yes I understand the normal use of RAID1 and backup hierachies and how to logon. Why should you lose sleep if a RAID1 partner goes out and you are ruunning on only one prop if you have image backups? Guess it depends on the application which is NOT an issue in my scenario which is essentially a forced failure and hopefully transparent background rebuild from a hotswap. Are you guys telling me the ONLY way to rebuild a RAID1 partner drive is to shut the system down and run utilities to resync the drives? There is no autosync on a hot swap with either soft or hard RAID1??? - Dave "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message news:C6DF5BCA-A802-487A-A014-0C5245A2F8C3[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > RAID is decent for a backup, in the sense for hardware failure. But, it is > still onsite, and still in the same PC. Should a fire, or a multiple HD > failure, or a format of the array, or corruption, it isn't a backup. If > one HD goes bad, it's the other one that saves it. If you have an offsite > backup; i.e. a DVD, Tape backup, you have something that isn't connected > to the PC. Almost a permanent copy of the files that were there when the > backup was created. > > RAID has it's uses, but as a removable backup device, it's not a good > idea. RAID works great in servers. If a HD goes out, you replace it, and > you're back up and running (you can even run one, but it's all sweat and > sleepless nights until the other gets replaced!). But, if the the whole > array goes to hell, and you don't have a tape backup or other... you're > screwed. If you take one HD out at night for the backup, and put it back > in in the morning, you're still taking a chance. > > We had a RAID (which saved us!), but we also had a tape backup. The RAID > was the easy fix. The tape backup would be safer, but more difficult. RAID > isn't meant for off-site backups. It's meant for hardware failure within > the PC itself. > > -- > Dustin Harper > dharper[ at ]vistarip.com > http://www.vistarip.com > > -- > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:E447CD13-FDB3-47EE-B078-18BC54843A8C[ at ]microsoft.com... >> What happened to you is what RAID is for. What the OP wants is to swap >> multiple disks in and out of a RAID 1 array for backup purposes. >> Depending on the controller this will eventually lead to corrupted data. >> The "backup" disk may not be bootable depending on the controller. The >> amount of time to rebuild the array will probably be longer and cause a >> bigger performance hit than creating a proper disk image would take. Many >> RAID controllers can't rebuild an array on the fly anyway. There are many >> reasons why using RAID for backup isn't a good idea :-) I use RAID in >> every server I build. They also have a backup strategy that has backups >> on at least two different media types. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca >> >> >> "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message >> news:B5C76B0C-6EAB-481E-AD8C-9CAA20E80E1C[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had >>> a RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). >>> Replaced one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and >>> running (scary few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the >>> RAID array, it kept the business up and running with little down time. >>> >>> Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data in >>> case of HD failure. >>> >>> -- >>> Dustin Harper >>> dharper[ at ]vistarip.com >>> http://www.vistarip.com >>> >>> -- >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>>> to be a backup system. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>>> >>>>> I already image to another drive. >>>>> >>>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> - Dave >>>>> >>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed >>>>>> isn't bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program >>>>>> and clone the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second >>>>>> drive. When you want another backup put in another drive and create >>>>>> another clone. This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA >>>>>> drives if you need to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software >>>>>>>development in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup >>>>>>>though I understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration >>>>>>>just fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot >>>>>>> drive so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive >>>>>>> in the tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a >>>>>>> backup and then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want >>>>>>> it to be brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I >>>>>>> want to swap backups. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do >>>>>>> in regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Questions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and >>>>>>> configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Chris Jacobsen" <chrisjacobsen[ at ]hotmail.com> 6/18/2007 4:57:16 AM No knowledgeable, experienced technical resource would ever support the notion of using RAID arrays for backup. If you want to do that then you should not be asking qualified people for their input. IT IS A BAD IDEA! "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > > Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you > could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an > excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the > notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well as > they do nowadays. > > Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this is > a bad idea? > > Thanks, > - Dave > > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer keeps >> working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works very >> well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed to be >> a backup system. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>> >>> I already image to another drive. >>> >>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap offsite >>> disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the booted or >>> the backup drive. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Dave >>> >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. You >>>> would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another drive, >>>> and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive hardware >>>> controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for it not to >>>> work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't bootable. >>>> A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone the hard >>>> drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When you want >>>> another backup put in another drive and create another clone. This can >>>> be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need to do the >>>> swapping without downing the computer. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>> >>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>> swap backups. >>>>> >>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>> >>>>> Questions: >>>>> >>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this >>>>> type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any >>>>> particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>> >>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must >>>>> you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or >>>>> software setup? >>>>> >>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work >>>>> the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>> >>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> 6/18/2007 4:59:12 AM I'm not sure on that one. A hotswap will probably take time, but it all depends on the RAID controller. Either way, it probably isn't the best idea to use it regularly as a backup option. -- Dustin Harper dharper[ at ]vistarip.com http://www.vistarip.com -- "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:e%23mEgSWsHHA.1212[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Yes I understand the normal use of RAID1 and backup hierachies and how to > logon. > > Why should you lose sleep if a RAID1 partner goes out and you are ruunning > on only one prop if you have image backups? Guess it depends on the > application which is NOT an issue in my scenario which is essentially a > forced failure and hopefully transparent background rebuild from a > hotswap. > > Are you guys telling me the ONLY way to rebuild a RAID1 partner drive is > to shut the system down and run utilities to resync the drives? > > There is no autosync on a hot swap with either soft or hard RAID1??? > > - Dave > > "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message > news:C6DF5BCA-A802-487A-A014-0C5245A2F8C3[ at ]microsoft.com... >> RAID is decent for a backup, in the sense for hardware failure. But, it >> is still onsite, and still in the same PC. Should a fire, or a multiple >> HD failure, or a format of the array, or corruption, it isn't a backup. >> If one HD goes bad, it's the other one that saves it. If you have an >> offsite backup; i.e. a DVD, Tape backup, you have something that isn't >> connected to the PC. Almost a permanent copy of the files that were there >> when the backup was created. >> >> RAID has it's uses, but as a removable backup device, it's not a good >> idea. RAID works great in servers. If a HD goes out, you replace it, and >> you're back up and running (you can even run one, but it's all sweat and >> sleepless nights until the other gets replaced!). But, if the the whole >> array goes to hell, and you don't have a tape backup or other... you're >> screwed. If you take one HD out at night for the backup, and put it back >> in in the morning, you're still taking a chance. >> >> We had a RAID (which saved us!), but we also had a tape backup. The RAID >> was the easy fix. The tape backup would be safer, but more difficult. >> RAID isn't meant for off-site backups. It's meant for hardware failure >> within the PC itself. >> >> -- >> Dustin Harper >> dharper[ at ]vistarip.com >> http://www.vistarip.com >> >> -- >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:E447CD13-FDB3-47EE-B078-18BC54843A8C[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> What happened to you is what RAID is for. What the OP wants is to swap >>> multiple disks in and out of a RAID 1 array for backup purposes. >>> Depending on the controller this will eventually lead to corrupted data. >>> The "backup" disk may not be bootable depending on the controller. The >>> amount of time to rebuild the array will probably be longer and cause a >>> bigger performance hit than creating a proper disk image would take. >>> Many RAID controllers can't rebuild an array on the fly anyway. There >>> are many reasons why using RAID for backup isn't a good idea :-) I use >>> RAID in every server I build. They also have a backup strategy that has >>> backups on at least two different media types. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message >>> news:B5C76B0C-6EAB-481E-AD8C-9CAA20E80E1C[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> It does work, not designed to be that way, but it works. I recently had >>>> a RAID controller go bad, replaced it and a bad HD (power problem). >>>> Replaced one of the two drives, rebuilt the array and back up and >>>> running (scary few days with just one HD). We had backups, but with the >>>> RAID array, it kept the business up and running with little down time. >>>> >>>> Not the easiest or correct way to use RAID, but it can save your data >>>> in case of HD failure. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dustin Harper >>>> dharper[ at ]vistarip.com >>>> http://www.vistarip.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>>>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>>>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>>>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never >>>>> designed to be a backup system. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> I already image to another drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> - Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common >>>>>>> for it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed >>>>>>> isn't bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program >>>>>>> and clone the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second >>>>>>> drive. When you want another backup put in another drive and create >>>>>>> another clone. This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA >>>>>>> drives if you need to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software >>>>>>>>development in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup >>>>>>>>though I understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration >>>>>>>>just fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and >>>>>>>> three Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the >>>>>>>> boot drive so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the >>>>>>>> drive in the tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite >>>>>>>> for a backup and then insert the previous drive that was offsite >>>>>>>> and want it to be brought up to date as a bootable drive for the >>>>>>>> next time I want to swap backups. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup >>>>>>>> the boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to >>>>>>>> do in regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the >>>>>>>> "D:" drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Questions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly >>>>>>>> inserted drive to be updated to the current mirror status >>>>>>>> automatically or must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? >>>>>>>> Different for hardware or software setup? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the >>>>>>>> original boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive >>>>>>>> and configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID >>>>>>>> configuration? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> 6/18/2007 5:03:58 AM As the others have said: it's a bad idea. It will work, but for how long and how well is questionable. That is why it is a bad idea. It may work great for you. It may not. It's going to be un-reliable. Hence, not a great backup system. You may not have any issues for years, if at all. BUT, you might have a problem at day one. We can't predict that. -- Dustin Harper dharper[ at ]vistarip.com http://www.vistarip.com -- "Chris Jacobsen" <chrisjacobsen[ at ]hotmail.com> wrote in message news:5079E7AB-9D82-49AE-964E-191D4D59AB54[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > No knowledgeable, experienced technical resource would ever support the > notion of using RAID arrays for backup. If you want to do that then you > should not be asking qualified people for their input. > > IT IS A BAD IDEA! > > > > "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> >> Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you >> could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an >> excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the >> notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well >> as they do nowadays. >> >> Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this >> is a bad idea? >> >> Thanks, >> - Dave >> >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>> to be a backup system. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>> >>>> I already image to another drive. >>>> >>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Dave >>>> >>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't >>>>> bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone >>>>> the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When >>>>> you want another backup put in another drive and create another clone. >>>>> This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need >>>>> to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>>> swap backups. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>> >>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 5:08:50 AM Gee that is really helpful and does a lot to further computer science. Can I quote you on that in the future when some "unqualified" person upgrades drivers to allow seamlessly hotswapping drives and stashing them as backups whilst a RAID system replenishes a new drive insertion??? Don't be so narrow minded you try to tell me what to do or not do if you can't answer my questions. - Dave "Chris Jacobsen" <chrisjacobsen[ at ]hotmail.com> wrote in message news:5079E7AB-9D82-49AE-964E-191D4D59AB54[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > No knowledgeable, experienced technical resource would ever support the > notion of using RAID arrays for backup. If you want to do that then you > should not be asking qualified people for their input. > > IT IS A BAD IDEA! > > > > "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> >> Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you >> could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an >> excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the >> notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well >> as they do nowadays. >> >> Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this >> is a bad idea? >> >> Thanks, >> - Dave >> >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>> to be a backup system. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>> >>> >>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>> >>>> I already image to another drive. >>>> >>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Dave >>>> >>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed isn't >>>>> bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program and clone >>>>> the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second drive. When >>>>> you want another backup put in another drive and create another clone. >>>>> This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA drives if you need >>>>> to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software development >>>>>>in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup though I >>>>>>understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot drive >>>>>> so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive in the >>>>>> tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a backup and >>>>>> then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want it to be >>>>>> brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I want to >>>>>> swap backups. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do in >>>>>> regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>> >>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure >>>>>> to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 5:10:22 AM "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message news:F6C59044-829D-4C3C-8FAF-0FDD931229A3[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > As the others have said: it's a bad idea. It will work, but for how long > and how well is questionable. That is why it is a bad idea. It may work > great for you. It may not. It's going to be un-reliable. Hence, not a > great backup system. > > You may not have any issues for years, if at all. BUT, you might have a > problem at day one. We can't predict that. > > -- > Dustin Harper > dharper[ at ]vistarip.com > http://www.vistarip.com > > -- > "Chris Jacobsen" <chrisjacobsen[ at ]hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:5079E7AB-9D82-49AE-964E-191D4D59AB54[ at ]microsoft.com... >> No knowledgeable, experienced technical resource would ever support the >> notion of using RAID arrays for backup. If you want to do that then you >> should not be asking qualified people for their input. >> >> IT IS A BAD IDEA! >> >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>> Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you >>> could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an >>> excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the >>> notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well >>> as they do nowadays. >>> >>> Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this >>> is a bad idea? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Dave >>> >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>>> to be a backup system. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>>> >>>>> I already image to another drive. >>>>> >>>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> - Dave >>>>> >>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed >>>>>> isn't bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program >>>>>> and clone the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second >>>>>> drive. When you want another backup put in another drive and create >>>>>> another clone. This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA >>>>>> drives if you need to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software >>>>>>>development in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup >>>>>>>though I understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration >>>>>>>just fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot >>>>>>> drive so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive >>>>>>> in the tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a >>>>>>> backup and then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want >>>>>>> it to be brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I >>>>>>> want to swap backups. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do >>>>>>> in regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Questions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and >>>>>>> configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 5:12:31 AM So why is it inherently unreliable? Does RAID1 not actually work if a drive fails? Are you not able to rebuild the mirror? Again, this is an engineering bug even if it is a fact. - Dave "Dustin Harper" <dharper[ at ]vistarip.com> wrote in message news:F6C59044-829D-4C3C-8FAF-0FDD931229A3[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > As the others have said: it's a bad idea. It will work, but for how long > and how well is questionable. That is why it is a bad idea. It may work > great for you. It may not. It's going to be un-reliable. Hence, not a > great backup system. > > You may not have any issues for years, if at all. BUT, you might have a > problem at day one. We can't predict that. > > -- > Dustin Harper > dharper[ at ]vistarip.com > http://www.vistarip.com > > -- > "Chris Jacobsen" <chrisjacobsen[ at ]hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:5079E7AB-9D82-49AE-964E-191D4D59AB54[ at ]microsoft.com... >> No knowledgeable, experienced technical resource would ever support the >> notion of using RAID arrays for backup. If you want to do that then you >> should not be asking qualified people for their input. >> >> IT IS A BAD IDEA! >> >> >> >> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:evLuz5VsHHA.1060[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>> Well Kerry maybe you should learn to think out of the box a bit and you >>> could see that if the software was done correctly it would in fact be an >>> excellent backup mechanism as I am suggesting rather than dismiss the >>> notion per the acronym what with hot swapping and trays working as well >>> as they do nowadays. >>> >>> Can anyone actually answer my questions isntead of just telling me this >>> is a bad idea? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Dave >>> >>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>> news:3006661C-0591-4817-91D8-35D3C01ECADF[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>> RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. The key word is >>>> redundant. If a disk fails the array will not fail and the computer >>>> keeps working until you can schedule the down time to fix it. It works >>>> very well at what it was designed for. It is not and was never designed >>>> to be a backup system. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kerry Brown >>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:Ojf9SOUsHHA.1204[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>> If common for it not to work what good is RAID? Gotta think there is >>>>> some merit to RAID and this idea than it likely wouldn't work in the >>>>> first place. Not ready to give up yet. >>>>> >>>>> I already image to another drive. >>>>> >>>>> What I want is to just be able to pull a mirrored drive and swap >>>>> offsite disks and let the new disk come back up to speed whether the >>>>> booted or the backup drive. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> - Dave >>>>> >>>>> "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >>>>> news:F069DE31-3F2F-41FB-BC12-C44E392E2AA2[ at ]microsoft.com... >>>>>> This is indeed a very bad idea. RAID is for redundancy not backups. >>>>>> You would have to break the mirror, remove one drive, insert another >>>>>> drive, and recreate the mirror. Unless you have a very expensive >>>>>> hardware controller this process is not foolproof and it's common for >>>>>> it not to work. It's also very common that the drive you removed >>>>>> isn't bootable. A better solution is to use a disk imaging program >>>>>> and clone the hard drive to a second drive then remove the second >>>>>> drive. When you want another backup put in another drive and create >>>>>> another clone. This can be done with USB, firewire or some eSATA >>>>>> drives if you need to do the swapping without downing the computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kerry Brown >>>>>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >>>>>> http://www.vistahelp.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23i9li4SsHHA.3736[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>I am plenty experienced with windows hardware and software >>>>>>>development in most areas except am a complete newbie for raid setup >>>>>>>though I understand the purpose and pitfalls of each configuration >>>>>>>just fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have an MSI Platinum P6N with 2G, Intel E6600, SataII 3G and three >>>>>>> Seagate 320G Barracudas and would like to run RAID1 on the boot >>>>>>> drive so I can regularly [once per week] hot swap out one the drive >>>>>>> in the tray which is part of the mirror and haul it offsite for a >>>>>>> backup and then insert the previous drive that was offsite and want >>>>>>> it to be brought up to date as a bootable drive for the next time I >>>>>>> want to swap backups. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this is too cumbersone or a bad idea then plan B is to backup the >>>>>>> boot drive to a RAID1 mirror and to then do what I am hoping to do >>>>>>> in regards to hot swapping alternating drives offsite using the "D:" >>>>>>> drive rather than the boot drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Questions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of >>>>>>> this type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? >>>>>>> Any particularly good raid links you can recommend? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of >>>>>>> the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted >>>>>>> drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or >>>>>>> must you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for >>>>>>> hardware or software setup? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS >>>>>>> reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the >>>>>>> nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or >>>>>>> must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even >>>>>>> work the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original >>>>>>> boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and >>>>>>> configure to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> 6/18/2007 2:11:31 PM Think about what you are trying to do and how RAID works. RAID is a real time system that spreads reads/writes across an array of drives. In your case (RAID 1) it keeps a mirror image on two drives. In any modern OS there are many background processes running any of which may be writing to the hard drive at any given time. When one drive fails (or you pull it from a hot swap bay) the writes continue on the remaining drive. This means the drive you pulled may have been in the middle of a write operation and the file system may be in an unstable state (corrupted). How useful is this as a backup? So, to use it for a backup you have to break the mirror before pulling the "backup" drive. How convenient is this? Now when you install a different drive the RAID has to be resynched. In my experience if you have any amount of data on the drive this can take a few hours and computer performance is impacted during this time. With some RAID controllers this can't even be done while the OS is running anyway. When the main drive fails what happens? You install one of the "backup" drives. If you are lucky it will boot and away you go. More likely you will have to go into the RAID setup and break the mirror before the drive will boot or install two drives and let them synch before it will boot. If you have used software mirroring (which doesn't support hot swapping) you will have to boot from a floppy that you created and edit the arc path in the boot.ini and hope it boots OK. Now that you've got it booted you have to deal with the results of pulling the drive out instead of breaking the mirror. Now look at the scenario I suggested. Using USB, Firewire, SCSI, SAS, or eSATA external drives (depending on your budget and need for speed) you have a disk imaging program that runs on a schedule. Once a day or however often you wish you unplug the external drive and plug in a new one. The backups are fully bootable. As long as they use the same interface as the main drive if the main drive fails you replace it with one of the backup drives and away you go. -- Kerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> wrote in message news:O3q4yOWsHHA.4500[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] >I would never use USB drives for my primary backup device [too slow] >although I do use them as second level offsite copies of my Acronis images >but it is a bit of a pain and that is exactly why I am trying to >conceptually advance how mirrors could be used for effectively tranparent >backups. Drives are plenty reliable to not particularly need redundancy >[except in server situations where you could not stand a 1 or 2 hour >outage]. For my development desktop I want the convenience of backups not >the redundancy as MTBF is already acceptable. > > If we only did what we were supposed to do then not much new would happen > would it? > > If RAID1 software was coded properly you could get transparent backups as > well as the redundant protection you say it was only designed for. > > I asked 4 questions. Only #4 introduces the concept of extending RAID1 for > backup purposes. > > Bottom line is I would like some suggestions as to whether I should use > hard or soft RAID1 on Vista and would like to know what happens if a drive > is disconnected [i.e. "fails"] and then I add another drive while the > system is running [hot swap] and whether it is typical that you must run > utilities to resync the mirror or whether hard or soft setup allows > automatic resync with the good drive remaining. Enevitable corruption is a > bug not a feature. > > Questions are: > > 1 - better to run hardware or software raid1 on a Vista system of this > type? Why? Do I need new RAID/SATA software drivers for Vista? Any > particularly good raid links you can recommend? > > 2 - using a drive hotswap tray I plan to install, can I pull one of > the mirrored drives and insert another and expect the newly inserted > drive to be updated to the current mirror status automatically or must > you normally run some utilitiy to do this? Different for hardware or > software setup? > > 3 - I read that older nVidia nForce chipsets had to have the OS > reinstalled if you turned on RAID1 for the boot drive. I have the > nForce 430i chipset and am wondering if they fixed this problem or > must I plan to image the OS back using Acronis and will that even work > the same as if I was still using just the one boot drive? > > 4 - can you in fact boot off the RAID1 partner drive if the original > boot drive fails or you have to go get the backup drive and configure > to boot the backup drive not part of a RAID configuration? > > Thanks, > Dave > > "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message > news:D0039934-1AE8-4A64-807E-B12BD2C68955[ at ]microsoft.com... >> You asked a question. I gave you an answer based on my experience. I have >> worked with many different RAID setups in may different OS'. I have >> actually tried to setup a system similar to what you want to do. It >> didn't work as well as a disk imaging system with multiple USB drives. >> >> -- >> Kerry Brown >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User >> http://www.vistahelp.ca > >

Re: How to run RAID1 for the Vista boot drive - pls help me understand "Dave" <REMOVETHISDaveAtHome[ at ]earthlink.net> 6/18/2007 3:14:46 PM OK Thanks for the thought and time Kerry. "Kerry Brown" <kerry[ at ]kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message news:D2108D4E-B6A4-440B-B0E9-7195167415D8[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > Think about what you are trying to do and how RAID works. RAID is a real > time system that spreads reads/writes across an array of drives. In your > case (RAID 1) it keeps a mirror image on two drives. In any modern OS > there are many background processes running any of which may be writing to > the hard drive at any given time. When one drive fails (or you pull it > from a hot swap bay) the writes continue on the remaining drive. This > means the drive you pulled may have been in the middle of a write > operation and the file system may be in an unstable state (corrupted). How > useful is this as a backup? So, to use it for a backup you have to break > the mirror before pulling the "backup" drive. How convenient is this? Now > when you install a different drive the RAID has to be resynched. In my > experience if you have any amount of data on the drive this can take a few > hours and computer performance is impacted during this time. With some > RAID controllers this can't even be done while the OS is running anyway. > When the main drive fails what happens? You install one of the "backup" > drives. If you are lucky it will boot and away you go. More likely you > will have to go into the RAID setup and break the mirror before the drive > will boot or install two drives and let them synch before it will boot. If > you have used software mirroring (which doesn't support hot swapping) you > will have to boot from a floppy that you created and edit the arc path in > the boot.ini and hope it boots OK. Now that you've got it booted you have > to deal with the results of pulling the drive out instead of breaking the > mirror. > > Now look at the scenario I suggested. Using USB, Firewire, SCSI, SAS, or > eSATA external drives (depending on your budget and need for speed) you > have a disk imaging program that runs on a schedule. Once a day or however > often you wish you unplug the external drive and plug in a new one. The > backups are fully bootable. As long as they use the same interface as the > main drive if the main drive fails you replace it with one of the backup > drives and away you go. > > -- > Kerry Brown > Microsoft MVP - Shell/User > http://www.vistahelp.ca