Link Contact to Multiple Accounts Matt 6/7/2007 10:04:00 PM In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this limiting and stupid design, but it is still present. Why is it designed like this, and is there anyway to fix it without having to go through some multi-step work around each time I link a contact. This is critical for my business. Let me give you an example: A Realtor having the same title company (contact) handling several different properties (accounts). I would appreciate any suggestions. Matt

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/8/2007 12:55:24 AM Matt, I feel your pain. I have contrived numerous, kludgey work arounds via extended Outlook task record linking etc. This built in design limitation restricts the BCM user to a "1-to-many" only relationship between the Account Record and the Business Contacts. Unless you are a skilled programmer, you will have to live with this. While it is entirely possible for there to be a "Many-to-many" data item relationship with a SQL db, MS apparently has decided that a more robust db platform with those types of features are best reserved exclusively for their CRM Dynamics solution. Smaller business users like us are not considered by MS to be a viable target user base for this kind of functionality. There are MANY real world usage relationships where this linking versatility would help but alas with BCM, "One size fits all." If you just can't live with this feature missing I can recommend an alternative SQL Express Outlook-Centric add-in solution that DOES enable this multiple Company/Account to Contact link relationship. Check out www.avidian.com. Best Wishes, -THP Matt wrote: [Quoted Text] >In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to >more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this >limiting and stupid design, but it is still present. Why is it >designed like this, and is there anyway to fix it without having to go >through some multi-step work around each time I link a contact. This >is critical for my business. Let me give you an example: A Realtor having >the same title company (contact) handling several different properties >(accounts). I would appreciate any suggestions. > >Matt -- Message posted via OfficeKB.com http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/8/2007 1:08:25 AM Matt, An additional reason that has been stated over the years for this design limitation is BCM's Communication History "roll-up" feature that lets you view all the history of every linked Business Contact in one place within the Account record's history. Without being too much in the know myself regarding the programming tasks involved, apparently this would be hard to change now that BCM is committed and known for this feature. However, I still think that this is an unnecessary and unfortunate false trade off built into BCM. The Prophet Outlook SQL add-in from Avidian is an excellent solution for many. They are releasing their newest version 4.5 by the end of this month that will be fully Vista and Office 2007 compatible. -THP mrtimpeterson wrote: [Quoted Text] >Matt, > >I feel your pain. I have contrived numerous, kludgey work arounds via >extended Outlook task record linking etc. This built in design limitation >restricts the BCM user to a "1-to-many" only relationship between the Account >Record and the Business Contacts. Unless you are a skilled programmer, you >will have to live with this. While it is entirely possible for there to be a >"Many-to-many" data item relationship with a SQL db, MS apparently has >decided that a more robust db platform with those types of features are best >reserved exclusively for their CRM Dynamics solution. Smaller business users >like us are not considered by MS to be a viable target user base for this >kind of functionality. There are MANY real world usage relationships where >this linking versatility would help but alas with BCM, "One size fits all." > >If you just can't live with this feature missing I can recommend an >alternative SQL Express Outlook-Centric add-in solution that DOES enable this >multiple Company/Account to Contact link relationship. Check out >www.avidian.com. > >Best Wishes, > >-THP > > > >>In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to >>more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this >[quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>Matt -- Message posted via OfficeKB.com http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "Lon Orenstein" <Lon[ at ]pinpointtools.com> 6/8/2007 10:24:59 PM Matt: You could use Opportunities for the listing or transaction record and link that to the contact (buyer or seller). Then, link the associated contacts like title company person, appraiser, inspector, et al to the Opp record, not the contact record. HTH, Lon ___________________________________________________________ Lon Orenstein pinpointtools, llc Lon[ at ]pinpointtools.com Author of Outlook 2007 Business Contact Manager For Dummies Author of the eBook: Moving from ACT! to Business Contact Manager 800.238.0560 x6104 Toll Free (U.S. only) +1 214.905.0401 x6104 www.pinpointtools.com "Matt" <Matt[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:E41AD4E6-CBE8-4516-8F39-403D28AD49F8[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to > more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this > limiting and stupid design, but it is still present. Why is it > designed like this, and is there anyway to fix it without having to go > through some multi-step work around each time I link a contact. This > is critical for my business. Let me give you an example: A Realtor having > the same title company (contact) handling several different properties > (accounts). I would appreciate any suggestions. > > Matt

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/9/2007 12:44:22 AM Lon, I have no intention to negate your well intentioned suggestion to use the Opportunity record above, but if I interpret and understand Matt's situation and your response correctly, this would NOT work because he would still be faced with an identical "1-to-many" only linking restriction using the Opportunity Record. The BCM Opportunity record shares this same "wonderful" linking limitation as the Account record by allowing 1 and only 1 (either or, not both) Business Contact or Account Record to be linked to an Opportunity at a time!! I have been ranting about this uncorrected BCM design oversight for almost 4 years now so it's kind of a sore spot for me. -THP Lon Orenstein wrote: [Quoted Text] >Matt: > >You could use Opportunities for the listing or transaction record and link >that to the contact (buyer or seller). Then, link the associated contacts >like title company person, appraiser, inspector, et al to the Opp record, >not the contact record. > >HTH, >Lon > >___________________________________________________________ >Lon Orenstein >pinpointtools, llc >Lon[ at ]pinpointtools.com >Author of Outlook 2007 Business Contact Manager For Dummies >Author of the eBook: Moving from ACT! to Business Contact Manager >800.238.0560 x6104 Toll Free (U.S. only) +1 214.905.0401 x6104 >www.pinpointtools.com > >> In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to >> more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this >[quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Matt -- Message posted via http://www.officekb.com

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts Luther <enowning[ at ]gmail.com> 6/11/2007 4:38:54 PM On Jun 8, 5:44 pm, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> wrote: [Quoted Text] > Lon, > > I have no intention to negate your well intentioned suggestion to use the > Opportunity record above, but if I interpret and understand Matt's situation > and your response correctly, this would NOT work because he would still be > faced with an identical "1-to-many" only linking restriction using the > Opportunity Record. The BCM Opportunity record shares this same "wonderful" > linking limitation as the Account record by allowing 1 and only 1 (either or, > not both) Business Contact or Account Record to be linked to an Opportunity > at a time!! > > I have been ranting about this uncorrected BCM design oversight for almost 4 > years now so it's kind of a sore spot for me. > > -THP > > > > > > Lon Orenstein wrote: > >Matt: > > >You could use Opportunities for the listing or transaction record and link > >that to the contact (buyer or seller). Then, link the associated contacts > >like title company person, appraiser, inspector, et al to the Opp record, > >not the contact record. > > >HTH, > >Lon > > >___________________________________________________________ > >Lon Orenstein > >pinpointtools, llc > >L...[ at ]pinpointtools.com > >Author of Outlook 2007 Business Contact Manager For Dummies > >Author of the eBook: Moving from ACT! to Business Contact Manager > >800.238.0560 x6104 Toll Free (U.S. only) +1 214.905.0401 x6104 > >www.pinpointtools.com > > >> In MS Business Contact Manager 2003 you could not link a contact to > >> more than one account. I thought that in 2007 they would fix this > >[quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > >> Matt > > -- > Message posted viahttp://www.officekb.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Don't Projects work for connecting multiple Contacts to a single entity?

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/11/2007 6:17:38 PM Luther, YES, the new Project record in BCM version 3 DOES exactly work in this manner. That is precisely why I continue to rant about this continued oversight with the Opportunity record BCM v.3. This additional multiple linking section is conveniently located right smack in the middle of the front General tab of each Project record and is titled "Related accounts and business contacts." What is bizarre is that both of the BCM Project and the Opportunity records are designed from the same native Outlook Task object and yet when the Project record was designed and added they did this right as opposed to the Opportunity record where this feature is still missing. Someone obviously did not think it important enough to also enable this feature with Opportunities as well and it thus makes me wonder how much real-world sales empathy and experience that this decision team even has. If this was possibly an aesthetic, layout related decision, I really don't care if they have to create another tab area of the Opportunity record to view these multiple Contacts. From a sales usage standpoint, the BCM Opportunity record should be the most robust and feature rich among all of the tools in the BCM arsenal. It is better than previous versions but still lags behind with dumb oversights like this. Based entirely upon the newer v.3 BCM Project record design, we know that this CAN be done with Opportunities. The question is how many future versions will pass before it ever happens? -THP Luther wrote: [Quoted Text] >> Lon, >> >[quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - > >Don't Projects work for connecting multiple Contacts to a single >entity? -- Message posted via http://www.officekb.com

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts Luther <enowning[ at ]gmail.com> 6/12/2007 4:34:31 PM On Jun 11, 11:17 am, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> wrote: [Quoted Text] > Luther, > > YES, the new Project record in BCM version 3 DOES exactly work in this manner. > That is precisely why I continue to rant about this continued oversight with > the Opportunity record BCM v.3. This additional multiple linking section is > conveniently located right smack in the middle of the front General tab of > each Project record and is titled "Related accounts and business contacts." > What is bizarre is that both of the BCM Project and the Opportunity records > are designed from the same native Outlook Task object and yet when the > Project record was designed and added they did this right as opposed to the > Opportunity record where this feature is still missing. Someone obviously > did not think it important enough to also enable this feature with > Opportunities as well and it thus makes me wonder how much real-world sales > empathy and experience that this decision team even has. If this was > possibly an aesthetic, layout related decision, I really don't care if they > have to create another tab area of the Opportunity record to view these > multiple Contacts. > > From a sales usage standpoint, the BCM Opportunity record should be the most > robust and feature rich among all of the tools in the BCM arsenal. It is > better than previous versions but still lags behind with dumb oversights like > this. > > Based entirely upon the newer v.3 BCM Project record design, we know that > this CAN be done with Opportunities. The question is how many future > versions will pass before it ever happens? > > -THP > > Luther wrote: > >> Lon, > > >[quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Don't Projects work for connecting multiple Contacts to a single > >entity? > > -- > Message posted viahttp://www.officekb.com Perhaps having a sales opportunity with more than one customer was more confusing to more users, than the number of users who sell an item to multiple customers. I see in Microsoft Accounting that users can only send an invoice, etc, to a single customer, so this limitation is not unique to BCM.

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/12/2007 5:30:41 PM Multiple linking functionality for the Sales Opportunity record has little to do with how many items get sold or to how many customers. Regardless of the number of items or buyers involved, most opportunities involve a number of secondary decisionmakers and influencers that are also communicated with. There is nothing really confusing about this. Most opportunities may involve a single customer entity (organization or person) but the decision for that single entity to buy or not to buy often involves many others too. This is true and very common for both product or service related sales among both large and small business sales opportunities. It is not really about how many customers there are but rather how many other business contacts play a role in the successful unfoldment of an opportunity process. With powerful search features now with Vista and Outlook, it is not the end of the world for the BCM Opportunity record to be so restricted in its linking. It is just needlessly inconvenient. Navigation and ease of usage are hindered. Before any future release I would recommend that a wide ranging test group of non-tech outside users be formed to agressively run BCM through their real world use paces. They can then report what works well vs. less well in terms of navigation and workflow. This type of non-tech beta feedback would likely flush out more of these kinds of crazy maker limitations. Then again, maybe I am just the odd duck out here in the real world with my particular BCM complaints. -THP -THP Luther wrote: [Quoted Text] >On Jun 11, 11:17 am, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> >wrote: >> Luther, >> >[quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> -- >> Message posted viahttp://www.officekb.com > >Perhaps having a sales opportunity with more than one customer was >more confusing to more users, than the number of users who sell an >item to multiple customers. > >I see in Microsoft Accounting that users can only send an invoice, >etc, to a single customer, so this limitation is not unique to BCM. -- Message posted via OfficeKB.com http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> 6/12/2007 5:50:13 PM Invoicing a single "Customer" entity is indeed a common accounting practice however, in its current design, Office Accounting will only link its customer entity to the BCM Account record. On the BCM side of the fence, the Account record is intentionally defined by MS as an Organization and not a Person. Unless a user breaks free of this MS assumed, "one-size-fits-all" restrictive definition, one is left wondering how to connect a single person (non- organization) to the Accounting side's customer entity. Solution: You can't relate a single person business contact as an Office Accounting Customer unless you are willing to name an Account record as an individual contact name in ADDITION to the MS prescribed use of the Account record as being intended for organizations only. The current BCM and Office Accounting configuration is slanted toward the usage assumption of managing mainly product sales only between one business ORGANIZATION to another business ORGANIZATION. If the "customer" in your particular marketplace for your products and or services is a PERSON, you have to adapt your thinking in order to accomodate BCM's designed data items and how they are allowed to link (or NOT link) together. -THP mrtimpeterson wrote: [Quoted Text] >Multiple linking functionality for the Sales Opportunity record has little to >do with how many items get sold or to how many customers. Regardless of the >number of items or buyers involved, most opportunities involve a number of >secondary decisionmakers and influencers that are also communicated with. >There is nothing really confusing about this. Most opportunities may involve >a single customer entity (organization or person) but the decision for that >single entity to buy or not to buy often involves many others too. This is >true and very common for both product or service related sales among both >large and small business sales opportunities. > >It is not really about how many customers there are but rather how many other >business contacts play a role in the successful unfoldment of an opportunity >process. With powerful search features now with Vista and Outlook, it is not >the end of the world for the BCM Opportunity record to be so restricted in >its linking. It is just needlessly inconvenient. Navigation and ease of >usage are hindered. > >Before any future release I would recommend that a wide ranging test group of >non-tech outside users be formed to agressively run BCM through their real >world use paces. They can then report what works well vs. less well in terms >of navigation and workflow. This type of non-tech beta feedback would likely >flush out more of these kinds of crazy maker limitations. > >Then again, maybe I am just the odd duck out here in the real world with my >particular BCM complaints. > >-THP > >-THP > >>On Jun 11, 11:17 am, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> >>wrote: >[quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>I see in Microsoft Accounting that users can only send an invoice, >>etc, to a single customer, so this limitation is not unique to BCM. -- Message posted via OfficeKB.com http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1

Re: Link Contact to Multiple Accounts Luther <enowning[ at ]gmail.com> 6/13/2007 10:31:13 PM On Jun 12, 10:50 am, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> wrote: [Quoted Text] > Invoicing a single "Customer" entity is indeed a common accounting practice > however, in its current design, Office Accounting will only link its customer > entity to the BCM Account record. On the BCM side of the fence, the Account > record is intentionally defined by MS as an Organization and not a Person. > Unless a user breaks free of this MS assumed, "one-size-fits-all" restrictive > definition, one is left wondering how to connect a single person (non- > organization) to the Accounting side's customer entity. Solution: You can't > relate a single person business contact as an Office Accounting Customer > unless you are willing to name an Account record as an individual contact > name in ADDITION to the MS prescribed use of the Account record as being > intended for organizations only. > > The current BCM and Office Accounting configuration is slanted toward the > usage assumption of managing mainly product sales only between one business > ORGANIZATION to another business ORGANIZATION. If the "customer" in your > particular marketplace for your products and or services is a PERSON, you > have to adapt your thinking in order to accomodate BCM's designed data items > and how they are allowed to link (or NOT link) together. > > -THP > > > > > > mrtimpeterson wrote: > >Multiple linking functionality for the Sales Opportunity record has little to > >do with how many items get sold or to how many customers. Regardless of the > >number of items or buyers involved, most opportunities involve a number of > >secondary decisionmakers and influencers that are also communicated with. > >There is nothing really confusing about this. Most opportunities may involve > >a single customer entity (organization or person) but the decision for that > >single entity to buy or not to buy often involves many others too. This is > >true and very common for both product or service related sales among both > >large and small business sales opportunities. > > >It is not really about how many customers there are but rather how many other > >business contacts play a role in the successful unfoldment of an opportunity > >process. With powerful search features now with Vista and Outlook, it is not > >the end of the world for the BCM Opportunity record to be so restricted in > >its linking. It is just needlessly inconvenient. Navigation and ease of > >usage are hindered. > > >Before any future release I would recommend that a wide ranging test group of > >non-tech outside users be formed to agressively run BCM through their real > >world use paces. They can then report what works well vs. less well in terms > >of navigation and workflow. This type of non-tech beta feedback would likely > >flush out more of these kinds of crazy maker limitations. > > >Then again, maybe I am just the odd duck out here in the real world with my > >particular BCM complaints. > > >-THP > > >-THP > > >>On Jun 11, 11:17 am, "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" <u8453[ at ]uwe> > >>wrote: > >[quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >>I see in Microsoft Accounting that users can only send an invoice, > >>etc, to a single customer, so this limitation is not unique to BCM. > > -- > Message posted via OfficeKB.comhttp://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Both BCM and MOA have Accounts and Customers, respectively, which are entities with whom sales and monies are exchanged, and then child Contacts, people associated with those entities. So at least they are consistent with each other in that regard. I believe MSCRM also has a similar schema. I agree that it is confusing to businesses that only deal with people to have a separate Account to bill the person and a Business Contact getting in touch with the same person.