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After integrating Accounting and BCM, no new "customers" were created in
Accounting from the BCM "accounts." I would like to create an Accounting
"customer" from the info already entered in BCM. Is this an import function?
If so, how do I know which file to import?
It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
J5 XP Machines
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Jimmy,
The current relationship between BCM and Office Accounting is essentially one-
way. You have to create the data in accounting first for it to flow over and
display in BCM. This is Microsoft's current definition and incarnation of
"seamless" integration. It is lame and limited. Also, you can only relate
on the receivables side of things with Customers to Accounts. If your
"Customers" in Accounting are individuals vs. organizations, you also have to
accomodate this by how you relate to that individual on the BCM side. You
currently cannot link any Accounting Customer data directly to a BCM Business
Contact record. You can only relate Accounting Customer data to a BCM
Account record. In the classic design BCM tradition, MS assumes a "one-size-
fits-all" set up that can be a very non-intuitive, crazy-maker for some users.
On the payables side of things you currently have no linkage of any Vendor
data in Accounting to any individual Business Contact in BCM. There is
currently also no cross-relation possible between any Accounting Employee
data and a Business Contact in BCM.
I have made suggestion to MS for these improvements but it will likely take
years rather than months for such changes to ever be implemented. I have
been highly critical because it often seems that BCM was designed by everyone
other than real "business" people.
-THP
Jimmy Stahl wrote:
[Quoted Text] >After integrating Accounting and BCM, no new "customers" were created in
>Accounting from the BCM "accounts." I would like to create an Accounting
>"customer" from the info already entered in BCM. Is this an import function?
>If so, how do I know which file to import?
>
>It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
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First, thank you for your confirmation of my fears. My jaw is on the desk
trying to accept that Microsoft would overlook such fundamentals of
accounting. I just can't believe they think it wise to release such grossly
under-developed software. If they had an accountant help in the design, they
shouldn't pay them and sue them for sabotage. But I doubt they had an
accountant review the program.
Second, how stupid is it to require information first be entered into the
Accounting customers and then create a BCM account? Don't most people start a
new business prospective relationship making "business contacts" and keeping
notes in their contact management software, BEFORE putting them into the
company accounting records???!! Who does Microsoft have supervising this
stuff? No wonder I can't find how to do basic things, the pitiful programs
don't do real customized note keeping, nor real accounting, they're not even
logical much less intuitive or easy to use!
I am so frustrated that I bought the "Latest & greatest" pitch from
Microsoft again. I tried Outlook 2000 and dumped it for ACT! & Quickbooks. I
thought by now Microsoft had figured out how to offer a good basic CRM
program, but they obviously don't even know the basics. I give them a month
to release an update or I'm going to buy something else. Best thing is I only
installed this stuff on two machines for testing.
--
J5 XP Machines
"mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Jimmy, > > The current relationship between BCM and Office Accounting is essentially one- > way. You have to create the data in accounting first for it to flow over and > display in BCM. This is Microsoft's current definition and incarnation of > "seamless" integration. It is lame and limited. Also, you can only relate > on the receivables side of things with Customers to Accounts. If your > "Customers" in Accounting are individuals vs. organizations, you also have to > accomodate this by how you relate to that individual on the BCM side. You > currently cannot link any Accounting Customer data directly to a BCM Business > Contact record. You can only relate Accounting Customer data to a BCM > Account record. In the classic design BCM tradition, MS assumes a "one-size- > fits-all" set up that can be a very non-intuitive, crazy-maker for some users. > On the payables side of things you currently have no linkage of any Vendor > data in Accounting to any individual Business Contact in BCM. There is > currently also no cross-relation possible between any Accounting Employee > data and a Business Contact in BCM. > > I have made suggestion to MS for these improvements but it will likely take > years rather than months for such changes to ever be implemented. I have > been highly critical because it often seems that BCM was designed by everyone > other than real "business" people. > > -THP > > > Jimmy Stahl wrote: > >After integrating Accounting and BCM, no new "customers" were created in > >Accounting from the BCM "accounts." I would like to create an Accounting > >"customer" from the info already entered in BCM. Is this an import function? > >If so, how do I know which file to import? > > > >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting > >customers" (or vendors) in BCM. > > -- > Message posted via OfficeKB.com > http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1> > |
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Jimmy,
Though I may appear to be otherwise, I am not anti-Microsoft. These
embarrassing, limited BCM design releases over the years are in my opinion,
most likely the product of a hindered perspective within a large corporate
bureacracy. Outlook's origins began as an Enterprise level email client for
Exchange. As a stand alone PIM it is very useful but they have attempted to
evolve its usefulness by cobbling together various design-by-committee ideas
and thus you get these "government-job" type of releases with such glaring
oversights. I have a lot of respect for programmers. They are a proud and
skilled bunch. My honest and often harsh feedback is intended only as useful
feedback and nothing more. I don't think my expectations for useful small
business CRM software are that much more than the next person.
BCM/Office Accounting is a marvelous idea but the implementation??...I'll
just kindly state...it needs much more work! Maybe a few more years...sigh.
-THP
Jimmy Stahl wrote:
[Quoted Text] >First, thank you for your confirmation of my fears. My jaw is on the desk
>trying to accept that Microsoft would overlook such fundamentals of
>accounting. I just can't believe they think it wise to release such grossly
>under-developed software. If they had an accountant help in the design, they
>shouldn't pay them and sue them for sabotage. But I doubt they had an
>accountant review the program.
>
>Second, how stupid is it to require information first be entered into the
>Accounting customers and then create a BCM account? Don't most people start a
>new business prospective relationship making "business contacts" and keeping
>notes in their contact management software, BEFORE putting them into the
>company accounting records???!! Who does Microsoft have supervising this
>stuff? No wonder I can't find how to do basic things, the pitiful programs
>don't do real customized note keeping, nor real accounting, they're not even
>logical much less intuitive or easy to use!
>
>I am so frustrated that I bought the "Latest & greatest" pitch from
>Microsoft again. I tried Outlook 2000 and dumped it for ACT! & Quickbooks. I
>thought by now Microsoft had figured out how to offer a good basic CRM
>program, but they obviously don't even know the basics. I give them a month
>to release an update or I'm going to buy something else. Best thing is I only
>installed this stuff on two machines for testing.
>> Jimmy,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
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|
Jimmy,
To be more completely accurate and fair, the data exchange between OA and BCM
is not entirely one way. Once you have completed the integration merge
wizard you can evolve some data from BCM over to Office Accounting - an
Opportunity into a quote, sales order, or invoice...billing time entries, etc.
The main function of the current integration provides a read-only display of
real time Accounting Customer financial history and summary within the BCM
Account record. You can also run some reports in BCM related to some
Accounting data.
I still wish there were greater design flexibility that enabled an individual
BCM Business Contact record to share various data with Office Accounting
rather than only through the BCM Account record which on the BCM side is
intended to be for an organization.
That remains my main gripe to work around.
-THP
mrtimpeterson wrote:
[Quoted Text] >Jimmy,
>
>Though I may appear to be otherwise, I am not anti-Microsoft. These
>embarrassing, limited BCM design releases over the years are in my opinion,
>most likely the product of a hindered perspective within a large corporate
>bureacracy. Outlook's origins began as an Enterprise level email client for
>Exchange. As a stand alone PIM it is very useful but they have attempted to
>evolve its usefulness by cobbling together various design-by-committee ideas
>and thus you get these "government-job" type of releases with such glaring
>oversights. I have a lot of respect for programmers. They are a proud and
>skilled bunch. My honest and often harsh feedback is intended only as useful
>feedback and nothing more. I don't think my expectations for useful small
>business CRM software are that much more than the next person.
>
>BCM/Office Accounting is a marvelous idea but the implementation??...I'll
>just kindly state...it needs much more work! Maybe a few more years...sigh.
>
>-THP
>
>>First, thank you for your confirmation of my fears. My jaw is on the desk
>>trying to accept that Microsoft would overlook such fundamentals of
>[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
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Thanks again, and I agree that being open and fair is what I need. Otherwise,
if you didn't confirm what the software simply doesn't do, I 'd probably
waste another whole day trying to find how to merge the duplicates
integration created, and another day trying to set up BCM accounts as vendors
in Accounting, and another day trying to make a BCM account export to the
Accounting (which now I know it doesn't even do! and its unbelievable it
doesn't!).
I also agree with you that we need acounting at the BCM "contact" level. In
one example, I do business with 3 diifferent departments of the same company
(BCM account), must invoice separately to 3 different contacts, but then I
get paid with one check from the company. Seems so simple to me that a junior
accountant at Microsoft would know that a contact level record should be
available.
--
J5 XP Machines
"mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Jimmy, > > To be more completely accurate and fair, the data exchange between OA and BCM > is not entirely one way. Once you have completed the integration merge > wizard you can evolve some data from BCM over to Office Accounting - an > Opportunity into a quote, sales order, or invoice...billing time entries, etc. > The main function of the current integration provides a read-only display of > real time Accounting Customer financial history and summary within the BCM > Account record. You can also run some reports in BCM related to some > Accounting data. > > I still wish there were greater design flexibility that enabled an individual > BCM Business Contact record to share various data with Office Accounting > rather than only through the BCM Account record which on the BCM side is > intended to be for an organization. > > That remains my main gripe to work around. > > -THP > > > mrtimpeterson wrote: > >Jimmy, > > > >Though I may appear to be otherwise, I am not anti-Microsoft. These > >embarrassing, limited BCM design releases over the years are in my opinion, > >most likely the product of a hindered perspective within a large corporate > >bureacracy. Outlook's origins began as an Enterprise level email client for > >Exchange. As a stand alone PIM it is very useful but they have attempted to > >evolve its usefulness by cobbling together various design-by-committee ideas > >and thus you get these "government-job" type of releases with such glaring > >oversights. I have a lot of respect for programmers. They are a proud and > >skilled bunch. My honest and often harsh feedback is intended only as useful > >feedback and nothing more. I don't think my expectations for useful small > >business CRM software are that much more than the next person. > > > >BCM/Office Accounting is a marvelous idea but the implementation??...I'll > >just kindly state...it needs much more work! Maybe a few more years...sigh. > > > >-THP > > > >>First, thank you for your confirmation of my fears. My jaw is on the desk > >>trying to accept that Microsoft would overlook such fundamentals of > >[quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting > >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM. > > -- > Message posted via OfficeKB.com > http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1> > |
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It really is insane that the BCM / Accounting integration design assumes that
one's customers are always going to be a business organization entity. I run
a consulting service business and all of my clients are individual customers
(people) and not an organization (company). BCM's Account record is supposed
to be used for organizations and the Business Contact record is supposed to
be used for individual people yet I can only link my Accounting Customer data
to an Account record (organization) even though my "customers" are individual
business contacts!
..."Hmm, we never thought of that type of very common usage scenario before!"
As I have said many times about BCM's design, like it or not, it is "one-size-
fits-all."
-THP
Jimmy Stahl wrote:
[Quoted Text] >Thanks again, and I agree that being open and fair is what I need. Otherwise,
>if you didn't confirm what the software simply doesn't do, I 'd probably
>waste another whole day trying to find how to merge the duplicates
>integration created, and another day trying to set up BCM accounts as vendors
>in Accounting, and another day trying to make a BCM account export to the
>Accounting (which now I know it doesn't even do! and its unbelievable it
>doesn't!).
>
>I also agree with you that we need acounting at the BCM "contact" level. In
>one example, I do business with 3 diifferent departments of the same company
>(BCM account), must invoice separately to 3 different contacts, but then I
>get paid with one check from the company. Seems so simple to me that a junior
>accountant at Microsoft would know that a contact level record should be
>available.
>> Jimmy,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
|
|
I am not a fan of Apple, nor Google, and would like to see Microsoft do well.
But it HAS TO BE BAD NEWS to release an accounting program with such
fundamental deficiencies and have the mass population get frustrated, then
they seek help and professional accountants tell them that Microsoft
Accounting software is a "rip off" etc.
Certainly Microsoft could not be the company it is without good record
keeping systems, and certainly they could assign competent people to quickly
straighten up the functioning design of this accounting software. The fact
that they don't is disrespecting, insulting and smells like a conspiracy to
intentionally frustrate the little guy.
I just can't believe they can not make it right. It's probably more like big
business payoffs to keep the general public struggling.
--
J5 XP Machines
"mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" wrote:
[Quoted Text] > It really is insane that the BCM / Accounting integration design assumes that > one's customers are always going to be a business organization entity. I run > a consulting service business and all of my clients are individual customers > (people) and not an organization (company). BCM's Account record is supposed > to be used for organizations and the Business Contact record is supposed to > be used for individual people yet I can only link my Accounting Customer data > to an Account record (organization) even though my "customers" are individual > business contacts! > > ..."Hmm, we never thought of that type of very common usage scenario before!" > > > As I have said many times about BCM's design, like it or not, it is "one-size- > fits-all." > > -THP > > > > Jimmy Stahl wrote: > >Thanks again, and I agree that being open and fair is what I need. Otherwise, > >if you didn't confirm what the software simply doesn't do, I 'd probably > >waste another whole day trying to find how to merge the duplicates > >integration created, and another day trying to set up BCM accounts as vendors > >in Accounting, and another day trying to make a BCM account export to the > >Accounting (which now I know it doesn't even do! and its unbelievable it > >doesn't!). > > > >I also agree with you that we need acounting at the BCM "contact" level. In > >one example, I do business with 3 diifferent departments of the same company > >(BCM account), must invoice separately to 3 different contacts, but then I > >get paid with one check from the company. Seems so simple to me that a junior > >accountant at Microsoft would know that a contact level record should be > >available. > >> Jimmy, > >> > >[quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting > >> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM. > > -- > Message posted via OfficeKB.com > http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1> > |
|
Without adding too much rampant speculation here I would suspect that it is
more a matter of market share domination. The number of Office users
worldwide is staggering. When you can sell so well anyway the incentive for
improvement is lessened. Survival selling is usually the impetus for
innovation. The incentive to innovate and improve becomes more stagnant when
folks will buy from you regardless. This is why the free flow of information
over alternatives is important via newsgroups like this.
-THP
Jimmy Stahl wrote:
[Quoted Text] >I am not a fan of Apple, nor Google, and would like to see Microsoft do well.
>But it HAS TO BE BAD NEWS to release an accounting program with such
>fundamental deficiencies and have the mass population get frustrated, then
>they seek help and professional accountants tell them that Microsoft
>Accounting software is a "rip off" etc.
>
>Certainly Microsoft could not be the company it is without good record
>keeping systems, and certainly they could assign competent people to quickly
>straighten up the functioning design of this accounting software. The fact
>that they don't is disrespecting, insulting and smells like a conspiracy to
>intentionally frustrate the little guy.
>
>I just can't believe they can not make it right. It's probably more like big
>business payoffs to keep the general public struggling.
>> It really is insane that the BCM / Accounting integration design assumes that
>> one's customers are always going to be a business organization entity. I run
>[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> >> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>> >> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
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Jimmy,
A reminder: No one holds a gun to our heads forcing us to use BCM. As we
are the purchasers, so too can we freely leave and purchase something else
but hey that's no fun...if I'm gonna be the purchaser, I like to exercise my
right to hang around here and torture the designers with my feedback noise a
bit when they overlook and screw things up.
Sometimes one just needs to become a pain in the a_ _ and make some noise in
order to shake things up a bit to even get the attention of the cozy MS
decisionmakers.
It can be very therapeutic!
-THP
mrtimpeterson wrote:
[Quoted Text] >Without adding too much rampant speculation here I would suspect that it is
>more a matter of market share domination. The number of Office users
>worldwide is staggering. When you can sell so well anyway the incentive for
>improvement is lessened. Survival selling is usually the impetus for
>innovation. The incentive to innovate and improve becomes more stagnant when
>folks will buy from you regardless. This is why the free flow of information
>over alternatives is important via newsgroups like this.
>
>-THP
>
>>I am not a fan of Apple, nor Google, and would like to see Microsoft do well.
>>But it HAS TO BE BAD NEWS to release an accounting program with such
>[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>> >> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting
>>> >> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM.
--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1
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But we can't even integrate "Vendors" with BCM, only "Customers".... how mean
is that?? It's got to be an intentional insult, not to mention the lack of
"print on check as" !! So can I get a refund of "Office 2007 for Small
Business" so I can buy something else?
--
J5 XP Machines
"mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Jimmy, > > A reminder: No one holds a gun to our heads forcing us to use BCM. As we > are the purchasers, so too can we freely leave and purchase something else > but hey that's no fun...if I'm gonna be the purchaser, I like to exercise my > right to hang around here and torture the designers with my feedback noise a > bit when they overlook and screw things up. > > Sometimes one just needs to become a pain in the a_ _ and make some noise in > order to shake things up a bit to even get the attention of the cozy MS > decisionmakers. > > It can be very therapeutic! > > -THP > > > > mrtimpeterson wrote: > >Without adding too much rampant speculation here I would suspect that it is > >more a matter of market share domination. The number of Office users > >worldwide is staggering. When you can sell so well anyway the incentive for > >improvement is lessened. Survival selling is usually the impetus for > >innovation. The incentive to innovate and improve becomes more stagnant when > >folks will buy from you regardless. This is why the free flow of information > >over alternatives is important via newsgroups like this. > > > >-THP > > > >>I am not a fan of Apple, nor Google, and would like to see Microsoft do well. > >>But it HAS TO BE BAD NEWS to release an accounting program with such > >[quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >>> >> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting > >>> >> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM. > > -- > Message posted via OfficeKB.com > http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1> > |
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On Jun 23, 3:21 am, Jimmy Stahl <JimmySt...[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
[Quoted Text] > But we can't even integrate "Vendors" with BCM, only "Customers".... how mean > is that?? It's got to be an intentional insult, not to mention the lack of > "print on check as" !! So can I get a refund of "Office 2007 for Small > Business" so I can buy something else? > -- > J5 XP Machines > > > > "mrtimpeterson via OfficeKB.com" wrote: > > Jimmy, > > > A reminder: No one holds a gun to our heads forcing us to use BCM. As we > > are the purchasers, so too can we freely leave and purchase something else > > but hey that's no fun...if I'm gonna be the purchaser, I like to exercise my > > right to hang around here and torture the designers with my feedback noise a > > bit when they overlook and screw things up. > > > Sometimes one just needs to become a pain in the a_ _ and make some noise in > > order to shake things up a bit to even get the attention of the cozy MS > > decisionmakers. > > > It can be very therapeutic! > > > -THP > > > mrtimpeterson wrote: > > >Without adding too much rampant speculation here I would suspect that it is > > >more a matter of market share domination. The number of Office users > > >worldwide is staggering. When you can sell so well anyway the incentive for > > >improvement is lessened. Survival selling is usually the impetus for > > >innovation. The incentive to innovate and improve becomes more stagnant when > > >folks will buy from you regardless. This is why the free flow of information > > >over alternatives is important via newsgroups like this. > > > >-THP > > > >>I am not a fan of Apple, nor Google, and would like to see Microsoft do well. > > >>But it HAS TO BE BAD NEWS to release an accounting program with such > > >[quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > >>> >> >>> >It would be real nice if there was a tool option to just "add to accounting > > >>> >> >>> >customers" (or vendors) in BCM. > > > -- > > Message posted via OfficeKB.com > > http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/outlook-bcm/200706/1- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Its not that BCM prevents the integration of MOA vendors, it's that
BCM has no concept of a vendor. BCM only considers customer
communications. I assume that someday BCM will add vendors, and a
subsequent release of MOA will then integrate vendors, so that simple
functionality like sending an email to a vendor will be possible in
BCM.
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