Purpose of Offline Cache files chiefplt 6/13/2006 1:21:02 PM I have a question as to the purpose of the OneNoteOfflineCache_Files that is created and used within my user's local settings directory. I have a very large collection of audio files within my notebook and OneNote seems to be duplicating every audio file here. In fact, I have another post where there are duplicate files within my OneNote Notebooks directory, so this seems to me to be a triplicate of my file. I set OneNote to operate using the "Work Offline" flag and I am not using any type of synchronization for any of my files. So why are they duplicated in this directory. I just don't have the disk space for OneNote to use three times the storage that it actually needs in order to store the same audio file in three different locations. Can I delete these files? Will OneNote create them again? What are they used for? Thanks for the input... chiefplt

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files "Patrick Schmid" <pds-ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net> 6/13/2006 4:45:09 PM You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are local. 2007 always works on the cache, never directly on your local files. That means even though everything is local, it is first written to the cache and then to your local files. You just never notice that step. The reason for this is that even though the notebooks are local to the OneNote on your machine, there might be a OneNote on another computer using them as well. ON doesn't differentiate technically between shared and non-shared notebooks (even though the UI suggests it does). Therefore all notebooks have to be treated as if they could be shared. So ON has to assume that some other ON might be making changes to the notebooks. The cache is where ON has its fancy syncing abilities and without writing to the cache it would completely fail if another ON was accessing the notebooks. I don't think there is much you can do about the offline cache. Patrick Schmid -------------- http://pschmid.net "chiefplt" <chiefplt[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:18FC6E77-192B-4B6F-961E-683135304F86[ at ]microsoft.com: [Quoted Text] > I have a question as to the purpose of the OneNoteOfflineCache_Files that is > created and used within my user's local settings directory. I have a very > large collection of audio files within my notebook and OneNote seems to be > duplicating every audio file here. In fact, I have another post where there > are duplicate files within my OneNote Notebooks directory, so this seems to > me to be a triplicate of my file. I set OneNote to operate using the "Work > Offline" flag and I am not using any type of synchronization for any of my > files. So why are they duplicated in this directory. I just don't have the > disk space for OneNote to use three times the storage that it actually needs > in order to store the same audio file in three different locations. > > Can I delete these files? Will OneNote create them again? What are they used > for? > > Thanks for the input... > > chiefplt

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files chiefplt 6/13/2006 7:16:02 PM What I don't understand is that I don't see any .one files stored in the Offline_Cache directory. All I see is my .WMA files for embedded audio. Why would ON need to store .WMA files in the Cache directory? Once they are recorded, I can't edit them from within ON - any new audio recording creates a new file. Those are the files I'm really concerned about - shouldn't ON be able to leave those in a local directory because they are never modified anyway? "Patrick Schmid" wrote: [Quoted Text] > You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > local. > 2007 always works on the cache, never directly on your local files. That > means even though everything is local, it is first written to the cache > and then to your local files. You just never notice that step. The > reason for this is that even though the notebooks are local to the > OneNote on your machine, there might be a OneNote on another computer > using them as well. ON doesn't differentiate technically between shared > and non-shared notebooks (even though the UI suggests it does). > Therefore all notebooks have to be treated as if they could be shared. > So ON has to assume that some other ON might be making changes to the > notebooks. The cache is where ON has its fancy syncing abilities and > without writing to the cache it would completely fail if another ON was > accessing the notebooks. > I don't think there is much you can do about the offline cache. > > Patrick Schmid > -------------- > http://pschmid.net

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files Grant Robertson <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> 6/15/2006 3:40:46 AM In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... [Quoted Text] > You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > local. OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase you want to waste all my space.

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files "David Rasmussen [MS]" <davidras.nospam[ at ]nospam.microsoft.com> 6/15/2006 1:34:25 PM Patrick is right. You will always require roughly 2x space. Although we do have a bug in the Beta currently that can cause these files to be duplicated more than that. So if you're seeing more than 1 copy in the Offline Cache folder that will be fixed by the time we release. Also you don't see the .one files there because in that same directory where that Offlice_Cache folder is there is a big OneNote Cache .one file that contains all the native .one content (i.e. everything but attached files). "chiefplt" <chiefplt[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:C4F4574A-5A9A-4767-99BC-F14F85C5E904[ at ]microsoft.com... [Quoted Text] > What I don't understand is that I don't see any .one files stored in the > Offline_Cache directory. All I see is my .WMA files for embedded audio. > Why > would ON need to store .WMA files in the Cache directory? Once they are > recorded, I can't edit them from within ON - any new audio recording > creates > a new file. Those are the files I'm really concerned about - shouldn't ON > be > able to leave those in a local directory because they are never modified > anyway? > > "Patrick Schmid" wrote: > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are >> local. >> 2007 always works on the cache, never directly on your local files. That >> means even though everything is local, it is first written to the cache >> and then to your local files. You just never notice that step. The >> reason for this is that even though the notebooks are local to the >> OneNote on your machine, there might be a OneNote on another computer >> using them as well. ON doesn't differentiate technically between shared >> and non-shared notebooks (even though the UI suggests it does). >> Therefore all notebooks have to be treated as if they could be shared. >> So ON has to assume that some other ON might be making changes to the >> notebooks. The cache is where ON has its fancy syncing abilities and >> without writing to the cache it would completely fail if another ON was >> accessing the notebooks. >> I don't think there is much you can do about the offline cache. >> >> Patrick Schmid >> -------------- >> http://pschmid.net >

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files "David Rasmussen [MS]" <davidras.nospam[ at ]nospam.microsoft.com> 6/15/2006 1:50:45 PM Apologies that you consider this so bad. However, it's way simpler to make a statement like this than to actually architect a robust system that meets everyones needs in the way you describe. Understand that our priorities include: - Make sure everyone's data is safe. - Make sure users don't have to make choices they can't understand in a way that might make their data unsafe (most users would have difficulty interpreting how to use such an option without potentially causing issues for themselves) - An example here is that in many companies people have "redirected my documents", their my documents folders are actually on a server, but cached locally by Windows Offline files. The users just perceive them to be their own documents on their own hard drive, being backed up to some server, but in fact it's actually that their documents are up on a server (primary location) and just being cached locally. So for OneNote this means that some people aren't even 100% certain about the fact that their documents may be on a server. - Avoid forcing users to make decisions up front that lock them in later (sometimes users don't know they want to share something until later, whether with themselves or someone else) - A bunch of details about quality of software etc. that I won't go into. Having two different architectures = twice the number of bugs that need to be addressed. having a single uniform architecture for how we handle files whether remote or local improves quality. - Make sure that the app is fast (another reason for caching is fast performance, we read/write quickly to the cache and can replicate across to actual files more slowly in the background) Most people hardly need 300GB drives to support this. I have a laptop with a 30GB drive (a little old school these days) and have ~10 notebooks open that I've been using for quite some time (a couple of years). Total storage of my cache and cached files is around 1GB. Even if you used our audio recording feature a lot you're talking about a few MB per hour. So even over a year of every day use you could fill up a GB or two, but that would be recording several hours every day. Granted if you started storing lots of large video files in us then you might start having issues. But if you're doing that you could store the video separately and just put links to it in OneNote (we won't cache it unless you insert the file into Onenote). Storage is very cheap these days (about 50c a gigabyte and falling fast) and size of average hard drive is going to be even larger by the time we ship OneNote. Hopefully you can understand why this was the right trade off for us to make. "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> wrote in message news:eJK6x1CkGHA.3304[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- > ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are >> local. > > OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the > option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then > use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard > drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just > ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our > entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? > I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase > you want to waste all my space.

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files "David Rasmussen [MS]" <davidras.nospam[ at ]nospam.microsoft.com> 6/15/2006 1:55:57 PM Oh, and one additional comment. If you were using an early beta version of OneNote 2007 you may have a redundant copy in there because we moved the location of the cache files. Specifically all the cache files you care about should be under the following path: C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\OneNote\12.0 Note the 12.0 at the end of that path name. If you have other files under ....ApplicationData\Microsoft\OneNote you can delete them all except that 12.0 folder. For example you may have a folder called Backup, Index, and OneNoteOfflineCache_Files. I wouldn't delete the backup if that contains backups you wish to retain, but otherwise the rest of the files at this level can be deleted, you just need to keep the 12.0 folder and its contents. "David Rasmussen [MS]" <davidras.nospam[ at ]nospam.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:u%23lDuBIkGHA.984[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [Quoted Text] > Patrick is right. You will always require roughly 2x space. Although we do > have a bug in the Beta currently that can cause these files to be > duplicated more than that. So if you're seeing more than 1 copy in the > Offline Cache folder that will be fixed by the time we release. > > Also you don't see the .one files there because in that same directory > where that Offlice_Cache folder is there is a big OneNote Cache .one file > that contains all the native .one content (i.e. everything but attached > files). > > > "chiefplt" <chiefplt[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:C4F4574A-5A9A-4767-99BC-F14F85C5E904[ at ]microsoft.com... >> What I don't understand is that I don't see any .one files stored in the >> Offline_Cache directory. All I see is my .WMA files for embedded audio. >> Why >> would ON need to store .WMA files in the Cache directory? Once they are >> recorded, I can't edit them from within ON - any new audio recording >> creates >> a new file. Those are the files I'm really concerned about - shouldn't ON >> be >> able to leave those in a local directory because they are never modified >> anyway? >> >> "Patrick Schmid" wrote: >> >>> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them >>> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are >>> local. >>> 2007 always works on the cache, never directly on your local files. That >>> means even though everything is local, it is first written to the cache >>> and then to your local files. You just never notice that step. The >>> reason for this is that even though the notebooks are local to the >>> OneNote on your machine, there might be a OneNote on another computer >>> using them as well. ON doesn't differentiate technically between shared >>> and non-shared notebooks (even though the UI suggests it does). >>> Therefore all notebooks have to be treated as if they could be shared. >>> So ON has to assume that some other ON might be making changes to the >>> notebooks. The cache is where ON has its fancy syncing abilities and >>> without writing to the cache it would completely fail if another ON was >>> accessing the notebooks. >>> I don't think there is much you can do about the offline cache. >>> >>> Patrick Schmid >>> -------------- >>> http://pschmid.net >> > >

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files Hil 6/30/2006 3:01:02 AM I have to agree with Grant on this point. I'll never be sharing my notebooks with others, and this is a huge waste for me. For example, I've been using ON for 13 days worth of notes, and my Notebook is now 80MB in size. At the end of a normal school year, my notes (without pictures, audio, or anything fancy, will be aobut 1GB in size. So I'll be using 2GB per year with this cache thing? If I had done this when I was an undergrad, my 4 years of college would have been 8GB. That's almost a third of your hard drive, David. If you include Windows, the rest of Office, and a few other programs like SPSS or any multimedia content, your HD is more than full. The other issue I have is that the cache size seems somewhat proportional to my performance. The larger the cache, the slower ON seems to go- at least, today after deleting my cache file, I found that the lags and frequent pauses I always experience after about 3 hours of writing went away, at least briefly. I'm running on a IBM X41, 1.5GB ram, 1.6Ghz chip. I shouldn't be getting long pauses while writing, should I? "David Rasmussen [MS]" wrote: [Quoted Text] > Apologies that you consider this so bad. However, it's way simpler to make a > statement like this than to actually architect a robust system that meets > everyones needs in the way you describe. > Understand that our priorities include: > - Make sure everyone's data is safe. > - Make sure users don't have to make choices they can't understand in a way > that might make their data unsafe (most users would have difficulty > interpreting how to use such an option without potentially causing issues > for themselves) > - An example here is that in many companies people have "redirected my > documents", their my documents folders are actually on a server, but cached > locally by Windows Offline files. The users just perceive them to be their > own documents on their own hard drive, being backed up to some server, but > in fact it's actually that their documents are up on a server (primary > location) and just being cached locally. So for OneNote this means that some > people aren't even 100% certain about the fact that their documents may be > on a server. > - Avoid forcing users to make decisions up front that lock them in later > (sometimes users don't know they want to share something until later, > whether with themselves or someone else) > - A bunch of details about quality of software etc. that I won't go into. > Having two different architectures = twice the number of bugs that need to > be addressed. having a single uniform architecture for how we handle files > whether remote or local improves quality. > - Make sure that the app is fast (another reason for caching is fast > performance, we read/write quickly to the cache and can replicate across to > actual files more slowly in the background) > > Most people hardly need 300GB drives to support this. I have a laptop with a > 30GB drive (a little old school these days) and have ~10 notebooks open that > I've been using for quite some time (a couple of years). Total storage of my > cache and cached files is around 1GB. > > Even if you used our audio recording feature a lot you're talking about a > few MB per hour. So even over a year of every day use you could fill up a GB > or two, but that would be recording several hours every day. > > Granted if you started storing lots of large video files in us then you > might start having issues. But if you're doing that you could store the > video separately and just put links to it in OneNote (we won't cache it > unless you insert the file into Onenote). > > Storage is very cheap these days (about 50c a gigabyte and falling fast) and > size of average hard drive is going to be even larger by the time we ship > OneNote. > > Hopefully you can understand why this was the right trade off for us to > make. > > > "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> wrote in message > news:eJK6x1CkGHA.3304[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- > > ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > >> local. > > > > OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the > > option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then > > use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard > > drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just > > ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our > > entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? > > I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase > > you want to waste all my space. > > >

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files Hil 6/30/2006 7:05:01 AM Remember, you can't just run a notebook on Onenote alone. My Windows folder alone is over 2GB. Add 500MB for Office, another 3GB for restore/trash/etc files, 1GB for old email... you get the idea. The point is, new tablet PCs are still going out the door with 40GB drives. And 8GB is simply too much space for a digital notebook to be taking up. I've been a student for many years (undergrad, graduate, and law) and in law school, I ended up with about 1200 typed pages of notes. If I had written them out in Onenote, they would probably have ended up at about 10GB. Double that for the bizarre cache, and that's 20GB. And although it's a nice idea to think you can just close all the notebooks, when you have to keep opening them up to look up things, it's awkward and annoying. I'd be better off just going back to typing my notes out in Word. Which is not particularlly a great system. I've also worked as a business manager in a Fortune 100 company. When you have 50 or so projects going on, you have to have some way of organizing them all. And please don't say "Project." It has its place, and it's not here :). OneNote, if it worked, would be fantastic. But I can imagine the cache would leap to 4GB and crash the machine immediately. Regardless, the cache implementation certainly has some bugs- it should never get to 4GB when my notebook directory is only 100MB. That's insane. Finally, I do have a desktop, and yes, I could copy my files to it. But then what would be the point of my laptop? It's always good to realize you can archive/backup some of that data to get it off your laptop or desktop, but the bottom line is that, for a feature that many people don't need, the extra space could be better utilized for keeping more data at your fingertips instead of having to pull out those DLTs to find your 2 year old notes. "Patrick Schmid" wrote: [Quoted Text] > Keep in mind that once you close a notebook, it will be removed from the > cache. So at the end of a semester/year, you can close the notebooks for > the courses of that particular semester/year. > > 8 GB being a third? That means you assume a 24 GB hard drive? My 6 year > old laptop came with 40, so did my 1 year old tablet (which I just > upgraded to a 100 GB drive). > > Do you have another computer, e.g. a desktop? If you do, store the > notebook files on the desktop and you are down to only the cache being > on your tablet (that's my configuration). > > Patrick Schmid > -------------- > http://pschmid.net > > "Hil" <Hil[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:A36CF2BE-84CD-4B97-AD6C-495FED4C0AB0[ at ]microsoft.com: > > > I have to agree with Grant on this point. I'll never be sharing my notebooks > > with others, and this is a huge waste for me. > > > > For example, I've been using ON for 13 days worth of notes, and my Notebook > > is now 80MB in size. At the end of a normal school year, my notes (without > > pictures, audio, or anything fancy, will be aobut 1GB in size. So I'll be > > using 2GB per year with this cache thing? If I had done this when I was an > > undergrad, my 4 years of college would have been 8GB. That's almost a third > > of your hard drive, David. If you include Windows, the rest of Office, and a > > few other programs like SPSS or any multimedia content, your HD is more than > > full. > > > > The other issue I have is that the cache size seems somewhat proportional to > > my performance. The larger the cache, the slower ON seems to go- at least, > > today after deleting my cache file, I found that the lags and frequent pauses > > I always experience after about 3 hours of writing went away, at least > > briefly. > > > > I'm running on a IBM X41, 1.5GB ram, 1.6Ghz chip. I shouldn't be getting > > long pauses while writing, should I? > > > > > > "David Rasmussen [MS]" wrote: > > > > > Apologies that you consider this so bad. However, it's way simpler to make a > > > statement like this than to actually architect a robust system that meets > > > everyones needs in the way you describe. > > > Understand that our priorities include: > > > - Make sure everyone's data is safe. > > > - Make sure users don't have to make choices they can't understand in a way > > > that might make their data unsafe (most users would have difficulty > > > interpreting how to use such an option without potentially causing issues > > > for themselves) > > > - An example here is that in many companies people have "redirected my > > > documents", their my documents folders are actually on a server, but cached > > > locally by Windows Offline files. The users just perceive them to be their > > > own documents on their own hard drive, being backed up to some server, but > > > in fact it's actually that their documents are up on a server (primary > > > location) and just being cached locally. So for OneNote this means that some > > > people aren't even 100% certain about the fact that their documents may be > > > on a server. > > > - Avoid forcing users to make decisions up front that lock them in later > > > (sometimes users don't know they want to share something until later, > > > whether with themselves or someone else) > > > - A bunch of details about quality of software etc. that I won't go into. > > > Having two different architectures = twice the number of bugs that need to > > > be addressed. having a single uniform architecture for how we handle files > > > whether remote or local improves quality. > > > - Make sure that the app is fast (another reason for caching is fast > > > performance, we read/write quickly to the cache and can replicate across to > > > actual files more slowly in the background) > > > > > > Most people hardly need 300GB drives to support this. I have a laptop with a > > > 30GB drive (a little old school these days) and have ~10 notebooks open that > > > I've been using for quite some time (a couple of years). Total storage of my > > > cache and cached files is around 1GB. > > > > > > Even if you used our audio recording feature a lot you're talking about a > > > few MB per hour. So even over a year of every day use you could fill up a GB > > > or two, but that would be recording several hours every day. > > > > > > Granted if you started storing lots of large video files in us then you > > > might start having issues. But if you're doing that you could store the > > > video separately and just put links to it in OneNote (we won't cache it > > > unless you insert the file into Onenote). > > > > > > Storage is very cheap these days (about 50c a gigabyte and falling fast) and > > > size of average hard drive is going to be even larger by the time we ship > > > OneNote. > > > > > > Hopefully you can understand why this was the right trade off for us to > > > make. > > > > > > > > > "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> wrote in message > > > news:eJK6x1CkGHA.3304[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > > > In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- > > > > ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... > > > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > > > >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > > > >> local. > > > > > > > > OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the > > > > option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then > > > > use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard > > > > drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just > > > > ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our > > > > entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? > > > > I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase > > > > you want to waste all my space. > > > > > > > > > > >

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files Hil 6/30/2006 3:28:02 PM That saves some space, but two things come to mind: 1) you can't really ask the average user to do that. If you do, they'll just buy a Mac. 2) It doesn't solve the problem with OneNote. "Patrick Schmid" wrote: [Quoted Text] > > Remember, you can't just run a notebook on Onenote alone. My Windows > folder > > alone is over 2GB. Add 500MB for Office, another 3GB for restore/trash/etc > > files, 1GB for old email... you get the idea. The point is, new tablet PCs > > are still going out the door with 40GB drives. And 8GB is simply too much > > space for a digital notebook to be taking up. > Get rid of some of the restore points (most are useless anyhow), reduce > the trash, use NTFS compression, figure out which folders you can delete > in the Windows directory, etc. I squeezed prob. 3-4 GB out of my hard > drive just with those measures (and I didn't lose any performance, > restorability, etc). > > > I've been a student for many years (undergrad, graduate, and law) and in law > > school, I ended up with about 1200 typed pages of notes. If I had written > > them out in Onenote, they would probably have ended up at about 10GB. Double > > that for the bizarre cache, and that's 20GB. And although it's a nice idea > > to think you can just close all the notebooks, when you have to keep opening > > them up to look up things, it's awkward and annoying. I'd be better off just > > going back to typing my notes out in Word. Which is not particularlly a > > great system. > As I said in another post, use NTFS compression for the .one files to > reduce the file size of those. It won't cost you any performance. > > > I've also worked as a business manager in a Fortune 100 company. When you > > have 50 or so projects going on, you have to have some way of organizing them > > all. And please don't say "Project." It has its place, and it's not here > > :). OneNote, if it worked, would be fantastic. But I can imagine the cache > > would leap to 4GB and crash the machine immediately. > > > > Regardless, the cache implementation certainly has some bugs- it should > > never get to 4GB when my notebook directory is only 100MB. That's insane. > You sure you have Beta 2 installed?? There used to be a bug in Beta 1 > whereby the cache would just constantly accumulate things until it hit 4 > GB at which point ON would crash. > That bug should have been fixed though. If your .one files are local to > your laptop, you can safely delete the cache file btw and just let ON > rebuild it. > > > Finally, I do have a desktop, and yes, I could copy my files to it. But > > then what would be the point of my laptop? It's always good to realize you > > can archive/backup some of that data to get it off your laptop or desktop, > > but the bottom line is that, for a feature that many people don't need, the > > extra space could be better utilized for keeping more data at your fingertips > > instead of having to pull out those DLTs to find your 2 year old notes. > Point is simple. You move the .one files to the desktop and then open > all notebooks on your laptop. Then your laptop will only have the cached > copy of your notebooks. Laptop hard drive space is more valuable than > desktop hard drive space, so if the laptop space need goes down to the > cache only, you get exactly what you want. It's not about archiving or > backing up, it's just making use of the sync feature. This also allows > you btw to install ON 2007 on your desktop and access the same notes > from your desktop. > > Patrick Schmid > -------------- > http://pschmid.net > > > > > > > "Patrick Schmid" wrote: > > > > > Keep in mind that once you close a notebook, it will be removed from the > > > cache. So at the end of a semester/year, you can close the notebooks for > > > the courses of that particular semester/year. > > > > > > 8 GB being a third? That means you assume a 24 GB hard drive? My 6 year > > > old laptop came with 40, so did my 1 year old tablet (which I just > > > upgraded to a 100 GB drive). > > > > > > Do you have another computer, e.g. a desktop? If you do, store the > > > notebook files on the desktop and you are down to only the cache being > > > on your tablet (that's my configuration). > > > > > > Patrick Schmid > > > -------------- > > > http://pschmid.net > > > > > > "Hil" <Hil[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > > > news:A36CF2BE-84CD-4B97-AD6C-495FED4C0AB0[ at ]microsoft.com: > > > > > > > I have to agree with Grant on this point. I'll never be sharing my notebooks > > > > with others, and this is a huge waste for me. > > > > > > > > For example, I've been using ON for 13 days worth of notes, and my Notebook > > > > is now 80MB in size. At the end of a normal school year, my notes (without > > > > pictures, audio, or anything fancy, will be aobut 1GB in size. So I'll be > > > > using 2GB per year with this cache thing? If I had done this when I was an > > > > undergrad, my 4 years of college would have been 8GB. That's almost a third > > > > of your hard drive, David. If you include Windows, the rest of Office, and a > > > > few other programs like SPSS or any multimedia content, your HD is more than > > > > full. > > > > > > > > The other issue I have is that the cache size seems somewhat proportional to > > > > my performance. The larger the cache, the slower ON seems to go- at least, > > > > today after deleting my cache file, I found that the lags and frequent pauses > > > > I always experience after about 3 hours of writing went away, at least > > > > briefly. > > > > > > > > I'm running on a IBM X41, 1.5GB ram, 1.6Ghz chip. I shouldn't be getting > > > > long pauses while writing, should I? > > > > > > > > > > > > "David Rasmussen [MS]" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Apologies that you consider this so bad. However, it's way simpler to make a > > > > > statement like this than to actually architect a robust system that meets > > > > > everyones needs in the way you describe. > > > > > Understand that our priorities include: > > > > > - Make sure everyone's data is safe. > > > > > - Make sure users don't have to make choices they can't understand in a way > > > > > that might make their data unsafe (most users would have difficulty > > > > > interpreting how to use such an option without potentially causing issues > > > > > for themselves) > > > > > - An example here is that in many companies people have "redirected my > > > > > documents", their my documents folders are actually on a server, but cached > > > > > locally by Windows Offline files. The users just perceive them to be their > > > > > own documents on their own hard drive, being backed up to some server, but > > > > > in fact it's actually that their documents are up on a server (primary > > > > > location) and just being cached locally. So for OneNote this means that some > > > > > people aren't even 100% certain about the fact that their documents may be > > > > > on a server. > > > > > - Avoid forcing users to make decisions up front that lock them in later > > > > > (sometimes users don't know they want to share something until later, > > > > > whether with themselves or someone else) > > > > > - A bunch of details about quality of software etc. that I won't go into. > > > > > Having two different architectures = twice the number of bugs that need to > > > > > be addressed. having a single uniform architecture for how we handle files > > > > > whether remote or local improves quality. > > > > > - Make sure that the app is fast (another reason for caching is fast > > > > > performance, we read/write quickly to the cache and can replicate across to > > > > > actual files more slowly in the background) > > > > > > > > > > Most people hardly need 300GB drives to support this. I have a laptop with a > > > > > 30GB drive (a little old school these days) and have ~10 notebooks open that > > > > > I've been using for quite some time (a couple of years). Total storage of my > > > > > cache and cached files is around 1GB. > > > > > > > > > > Even if you used our audio recording feature a lot you're talking about a > > > > > few MB per hour. So even over a year of every day use you could fill up a GB > > > > > or two, but that would be recording several hours every day. > > > > > > > > > > Granted if you started storing lots of large video files in us then you > > > > > might start having issues. But if you're doing that you could store the > > > > > video separately and just put links to it in OneNote (we won't cache it > > > > > unless you insert the file into Onenote). > > > > > > > > > > Storage is very cheap these days (about 50c a gigabyte and falling fast) and > > > > > size of average hard drive is going to be even larger by the time we ship > > > > > OneNote. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully you can understand why this was the right trade off for us to > > > > > make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> wrote in message > > > > > news:eJK6x1CkGHA.3304[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > > > > > In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- > > > > > > ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... > > > > > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > > > > > >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > > > > > >> local. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the > > > > > > option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then > > > > > > use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard > > > > > > drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just > > > > > > ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our > > > > > > entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? > > > > > > I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase > > > > > > you want to waste all my space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Re: Purpose of Offline Cache files Rod Smith 9/12/2006 2:15:02 AM "Patrick Schmid" wrote: [Quoted Text] > > Do you have another computer, e.g. a desktop? If you do, store the > notebook files on the desktop and you are down to only the cache being > on your tablet (that's my configuration). I tried doing something like this but a big problem I enouctered was with the "Send to OneNote" feature when printing. I was trying to 'print' a powerpoint presentation to ON but kept getting an error message saying that it could not find a spot to write the new document ... and that I should browse to a page where the document can be inserted. I tried sending the PPT to an existing ON page as well as making a new page and sending it there - neither worked. It was as if it was looking for the .one file in the 'OneNote Notebooks' folder hierarchy (which of course was empty when I am offline). It just wouldnt allow me to 'print' the document to OneNote when running from the cache. When I reconnected to the network and the .one files were once again visible on my file server the Send to OneNote feature worked again. In order to Send to OneNote when offline, I had to move the OneNote .one files back to the local hard disk. Rod. > > Patrick Schmid > -------------- > http://pschmid.net > > "Hil" <Hil[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:A36CF2BE-84CD-4B97-AD6C-495FED4C0AB0[ at ]microsoft.com: > > > I have to agree with Grant on this point. I'll never be sharing my notebooks > > with others, and this is a huge waste for me. > > > > For example, I've been using ON for 13 days worth of notes, and my Notebook > > is now 80MB in size. At the end of a normal school year, my notes (without > > pictures, audio, or anything fancy, will be aobut 1GB in size. So I'll be > > using 2GB per year with this cache thing? If I had done this when I was an > > undergrad, my 4 years of college would have been 8GB. That's almost a third > > of your hard drive, David. If you include Windows, the rest of Office, and a > > few other programs like SPSS or any multimedia content, your HD is more than > > full. > > > > The other issue I have is that the cache size seems somewhat proportional to > > my performance. The larger the cache, the slower ON seems to go- at least, > > today after deleting my cache file, I found that the lags and frequent pauses > > I always experience after about 3 hours of writing went away, at least > > briefly. > > > > I'm running on a IBM X41, 1.5GB ram, 1.6Ghz chip. I shouldn't be getting > > long pauses while writing, should I? > > > > > > "David Rasmussen [MS]" wrote: > > > > > Apologies that you consider this so bad. However, it's way simpler to make a > > > statement like this than to actually architect a robust system that meets > > > everyones needs in the way you describe. > > > Understand that our priorities include: > > > - Make sure everyone's data is safe. > > > - Make sure users don't have to make choices they can't understand in a way > > > that might make their data unsafe (most users would have difficulty > > > interpreting how to use such an option without potentially causing issues > > > for themselves) > > > - An example here is that in many companies people have "redirected my > > > documents", their my documents folders are actually on a server, but cached > > > locally by Windows Offline files. The users just perceive them to be their > > > own documents on their own hard drive, being backed up to some server, but > > > in fact it's actually that their documents are up on a server (primary > > > location) and just being cached locally. So for OneNote this means that some > > > people aren't even 100% certain about the fact that their documents may be > > > on a server. > > > - Avoid forcing users to make decisions up front that lock them in later > > > (sometimes users don't know they want to share something until later, > > > whether with themselves or someone else) > > > - A bunch of details about quality of software etc. that I won't go into. > > > Having two different architectures = twice the number of bugs that need to > > > be addressed. having a single uniform architecture for how we handle files > > > whether remote or local improves quality. > > > - Make sure that the app is fast (another reason for caching is fast > > > performance, we read/write quickly to the cache and can replicate across to > > > actual files more slowly in the background) > > > > > > Most people hardly need 300GB drives to support this. I have a laptop with a > > > 30GB drive (a little old school these days) and have ~10 notebooks open that > > > I've been using for quite some time (a couple of years). Total storage of my > > > cache and cached files is around 1GB. > > > > > > Even if you used our audio recording feature a lot you're talking about a > > > few MB per hour. So even over a year of every day use you could fill up a GB > > > or two, but that would be recording several hours every day. > > > > > > Granted if you started storing lots of large video files in us then you > > > might start having issues. But if you're doing that you could store the > > > video separately and just put links to it in OneNote (we won't cache it > > > unless you insert the file into Onenote). > > > > > > Storage is very cheap these days (about 50c a gigabyte and falling fast) and > > > size of average hard drive is going to be even larger by the time we ship > > > OneNote. > > > > > > Hopefully you can understand why this was the right trade off for us to > > > make. > > > > > > > > > "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> wrote in message > > > news:eJK6x1CkGHA.3304[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > > > In article <eqKs#iwjGHA.3588[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, pds- > > > > ms[ at ]nospam.pschmid.net says... > > > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > > > >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > > > >> local. > > > > > > > > OK, I am sorry, that is unacceptable as well. You should give users the > > > > option of whether they intend to share files with others and only then > > > > use a cache for only the shared files. To simply double the required hard > > > > drive space for everyone just to save an extra option in a dialog is just > > > > ludicrous. And this for a program that Microsoft suggests that we put our > > > > entire life of notes into. What the heck are these guys thinking anyway? > > > > I'm not going to just run out and buy a 300 GB laptop hard drive becuase > > > > you want to waste all my space. > > > > > > > > > > >

okay, please further advise.... yeldahs 4/15/2007 4:38:02 AM i emptied the offline cache folder at the address in that path and i still get an error message when i try to insert .wav audio files that the cache where the notebook is stored is full and therefore it can't insert the audio. i'm new to onenote and this is my first notebook, so how can it really be full? "David Rasmussen [MS]" wrote: [Quoted Text] > Patrick is right. You will always require roughly 2x space. Although we do > have a bug in the Beta currently that can cause these files to be duplicated > more than that. So if you're seeing more than 1 copy in the Offline Cache > folder that will be fixed by the time we release. > > Also you don't see the .one files there because in that same directory where > that Offlice_Cache folder is there is a big OneNote Cache .one file that > contains all the native .one content (i.e. everything but attached files). > > > "chiefplt" <chiefplt[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:C4F4574A-5A9A-4767-99BC-F14F85C5E904[ at ]microsoft.com... > > What I don't understand is that I don't see any .one files stored in the > > Offline_Cache directory. All I see is my .WMA files for embedded audio. > > Why > > would ON need to store .WMA files in the Cache directory? Once they are > > recorded, I can't edit them from within ON - any new audio recording > > creates > > a new file. Those are the files I'm really concerned about - shouldn't ON > > be > > able to leave those in a local directory because they are never modified > > anyway? > > > > "Patrick Schmid" wrote: > > > >> You can delete the Offline Cache files, but ON will always create them > >> again. With ON 2007, you need twice the disk space if your notes are > >> local. > >> 2007 always works on the cache, never directly on your local files. That > >> means even though everything is local, it is first written to the cache > >> and then to your local files. You just never notice that step. The > >> reason for this is that even though the notebooks are local to the > >> OneNote on your machine, there might be a OneNote on another computer > >> using them as well. ON doesn't differentiate technically between shared > >> and non-shared notebooks (even though the UI suggests it does). > >> Therefore all notebooks have to be treated as if they could be shared. > >> So ON has to assume that some other ON might be making changes to the > >> notebooks. The cache is where ON has its fancy syncing abilities and > >> without writing to the cache it would completely fail if another ON was > >> accessing the notebooks. > >> I don't think there is much you can do about the offline cache. > >> > >> Patrick Schmid > >> -------------- > >> http://pschmid.net > > > > >

Re: okay, please further advise.... Grant Robertson <BOGUS[ at ]BOGUS.com> 4/16/2007 12:10:41 AM In article <457833F1-3F77-4360-88FA-6E44987D4EDA[ at ]microsoft.com>, yeldahs[ at ]discussions.microsoft.com says... [Quoted Text] > i emptied the offline cache folder at the address in that path and i still > get an error message when i try to insert .wav audio files that the cache > where the notebook is stored is full and therefore it can't insert the audio. As soon as you start OneNote it copies everything back into that cache folder anyway. Consider the cache folder to be the working folder. Once OneNote has been running for a while (at least an hour), how much space do you have left on that hard drive?