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Hello!
Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
Any Vonage users out there?
Thank you!
Gregg Hill
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On Jun 29, 9:24 am, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Hello!
>
> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> Any Vonage users out there?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Gregg Hill
Hi Greg,
We did a lot of testing with Vonage in the UK and US and could never
get their 'fax lines' to run reliably with any of the fax machines or
boards that we tested with. You might want to read the following
paper on why fax and VoIP really don't mix;
http://hylafax.sourceforge.net/docs/fax-over-voip.pdf
If fax is important to you then get yourself a 'real' POTS line and a
decent fax card;
http://www.mainpine.com/products_IQE.html
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, bogus[ at ]nowhere.com
says...
[Quoted Text] > Hello!
>
> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> Any Vonage users out there?
I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
Hi Gregg
I use Vonage and a HP 2840 all in one Printer using Static IP. I am a very
low volume fax user but I have had no difficulty with fax inbound or
outbound. My internet provider is Charter and the modem is the one provided
by Vonage.
--
Frank McCallister SBS MVP
MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist
COMPUMAC
"Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
[Quoted Text] > Hello!
>
> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003
> SP1). I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine
> works well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned
> off V.34 and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as
> the defaults of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I
> will replace the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with
> faxing.
>
> Any Vonage users out there?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Gregg Hill
>
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On Jun 29, 2:43 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
> says...
>
> > Hello!
>
> > Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> > faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> > dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> > I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> > well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> > and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> > of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> > the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> > Any Vonage users out there?
>
> I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>
> I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Jun 29, 2:43 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
> says...
>
> > Hello!
>
> > Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> > faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> > dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> > I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> > well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> > and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> > of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> > the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> > Any Vonage users out there?
>
> I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>
> I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
Hi Leythos,
Could you define "works fine" ? We tested Vonage in both our UK and
US labs using multiple ISP's, routers, fax machines, and fax boards.
Our results indicated that something like 50% was the best success
rate you could expect (some setups were much worst, some were much
better). Here's a glossy overview of our fax certification lab;
http://www.mainpine.com/isv/lab/
One of the things you have to realise is that fax over VoIP is
fundamentally flawed. We have spent a lot of time developing fax
boards and fax applications that are as tolerant of VoIP as possible.
We have demanding customers who can achieve fax failure rates of 0.1%
on POTS lines. The following article has been written by one of the
major contributors to HylaFAX... this guy explains in laymen's terns
what you are up against if you try to mix fax and VoIP;
http://hylafax.sourceforge.net/docs/fax-over-voip.pdf
I'm also surprised that your USR modem "works fine". If you search
for USR on the www.hylafax.org user groups you will get some idea of
just how many fax compatibility problems these devices are known to
have
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
Frank,
Which model from Vonage? They have over a dozen models.
Mine is the RT31P2 with 1.30.01 firmware (original, as far as I know).
Gregg Hill
"Frank McCallister SBS MVP" <anonymous> wrote in message
news:8ACAA1C5-9D6F-4D3E-9572-188137C9460F[ at ]microsoft.com...
[Quoted Text] > Hi Gregg
>
> I use Vonage and a HP 2840 all in one Printer using Static IP. I am a very
> low volume fax user but I have had no difficulty with fax inbound or
> outbound. My internet provider is Charter and the modem is the one
> provided by Vonage.
>
> --
> Frank McCallister SBS MVP
> MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist
> COMPUMAC
>
> "Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Hello!
>>
>> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
>> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
>> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003
>> SP1). I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine
>> works well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned
>> off V.34 and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as
>> the defaults of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I
>> will replace the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with
>> faxing.
>>
>> Any Vonage users out there?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Gregg Hill
>>
|
|
Leythos,
I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one
dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of external USR
V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just remembered
that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines have
worked fine.
I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone adapter
works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one that has
been mentioned, and that was from you.
Gregg Hill
"Leythos" <void[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com...
[Quoted Text] > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, bogus[ at ]nowhere.com
> says...
>> Hello!
>>
>> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
>> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
>> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003
>> SP1).
>> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
>> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off
>> V.34
>> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the
>> defaults
>> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
>> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>>
>> Any Vonage users out there?
>
> I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>
> I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Leythos,
>
> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one
> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of external USR
> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just remembered
> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines have
> worked fine.
>
> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone adapter
> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one that has
> been mentioned, and that was from you.
>
> Gregg Hill
>
> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
> > says...
> >> Hello!
>
> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003
> >> SP1).
> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off
> >> V.34
> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the
> >> defaults
> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> >> Any Vonage users out there?
>
> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>
> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>
> > --
>
> > Leythos
> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Greg,
It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your
discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under any
illusions about what the requirements are.
Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab tests
and this had little bearing on the results.
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last night
would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout.
I only send about five a month.
Thank you!
Gregg Hill
"Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message
news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Leythos,
>>
>> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one
>> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of external
>> USR
>> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just
>> remembered
>> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines
>> have
>> worked fine.
>>
>> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone
>> adapter
>> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one that
>> has
>> been mentioned, and that was from you.
>>
>> Gregg Hill
>>
>> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>>
>> news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
>> > says...
>> >> Hello!
>>
>> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot
>> >> send
>> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines,
>> >> one
>> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003
>> >> SP1).
>> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine
>> >> works
>> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off
>> >> V.34
>> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the
>> >> defaults
>> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will
>> >> replace
>> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>>
>> >> Any Vonage users out there?
>>
>> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
>> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>>
>> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
>> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
>> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>>
>> > --
>>
>> > Leythos
>> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
>> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
>> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
>> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide
>> > quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your
> discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under any
> illusions about what the requirements are.
>
> Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab tests
> and this had little bearing on the results.
>
> Regards
>
> ANDREW RINALDI
> Mainpine Limited - Support
> USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
> andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
>
|
|
In article <1183127178.208047.48200[ at ]i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com says...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 2:43 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
> > says...
> >
> > > Hello!
> >
> > > Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> > > faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> > > dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> > > I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> > > well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> > > and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> > > of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> > > the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
> >
> > > Any Vonage users out there?
> >
> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
> >
> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Leythos
> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
> Hi Leythos,
>
> Could you define "works fine" ? We tested Vonage in both our UK and
> US labs using multiple ISP's, routers, fax machines, and fax boards.
> Our results indicated that something like 50% was the best success
> rate you could expect (some setups were much worst, some were much
> better). Here's a glossy overview of our fax certification lab;
Works fine would be 100% reliable send/recv with the exception of my
father using his VOIP fax service to send to me as testing.
We send about 20 faxes a week and get about 40 a week inbound, when we
started I checked with clients to see if there were any problems and
none were encountered.
Keep in mind, I did all the wiring in our building, use CAT5 for voice,
and we don't use the VOIP device for internet service, we have it on a
Dedicated IP outside our firewall and it ONLY provides Phone/Fax
functions.
>
> [removed link]
>
> One of the things you have to realise is that fax over VoIP is
> fundamentally flawed. We have spent a lot of time developing fax
> boards and fax applications that are as tolerant of VoIP as possible.
> We have demanding customers who can achieve fax failure rates of 0.1%
> on POTS lines. The following article has been written by one of the
> major contributors to HylaFAX... this guy explains in laymen's terns
> what you are up against if you try to mix fax and VoIP;
Why do I have to understand that it's flawed - it works fine with my
clients and we've only seen problems when the ISP is over-sold and
doesn't have capacity or when people use DSL and can't get what they
were told for performance, but it's easy to check those stats before
they try and go VOIP (if we are called before they make the leap).
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last night > would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. > > I only send about five a month. > > Thank you! > > Gregg Hill > > "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> Leythos, > > >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one > >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of external > >> USR > >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just > >> remembered > >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines > >> have > >> worked fine. > > >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone > >> adapter > >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one that > >> has > >> been mentioned, and that was from you. > > >> Gregg Hill > > >> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message > > >>news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com... > > >> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com > >> > says... > >> >> Hello! > > >> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot > >> >> send > >> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, > >> >> one > >> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 > >> >> SP1). > >> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine > >> >> works > >> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off > >> >> V.34 > >> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the > >> >> defaults > >> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will > >> >> replace > >> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing. > > >> >> Any Vonage users out there? > > >> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple > >> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them. > > >> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in > >> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and > >> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection. > > >> > -- > > >> > Leythos > >> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. > >> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a > >> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" > >> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide > >> > quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Hi Greg, > > > It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your > > discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under any > > illusions about what the requirements are. > > > Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab tests > > and this had little bearing on the results. > > > Regards > > > ANDREW RINALDI > > Mainpine Limited - Support > > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Hi Gregg,
With this low volume you should be able to get this working on
Vonage. I'd focus on the fax machine during your testing because it
removes the Brooktrout firmware and fax software from the equation.
I'd just keep pushing Vonage until you get an acceptable resolution on
your 'fax' line.
Good luck !
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
On Jun 29, 7:01 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > In article <1183127178.208047.48...[ at ]i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 2:43 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
> > > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com
> > > says...
>
> > > > Hello!
>
> > > > Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot send
> > > > faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax machines, one
> > > > dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS 2003 SP1).
> > > > I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine works
> > > > well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned off V.34
> > > > and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the defaults
> > > > of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will replace
> > > > the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing.
>
> > > > Any Vonage users out there?
>
> > > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple
> > > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of them.
>
> > > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines in
> > > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and
> > > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection.
>
> > > --
>
> > > Leythos
> > > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
> > Hi Leythos,
>
> > Could you define "works fine" ? We tested Vonage in both our UK and
> > US labs using multiple ISP's, routers, fax machines, and fax boards.
> > Our results indicated that something like 50% was the best success
> > rate you could expect (some setups were much worst, some were much
> > better). Here's a glossy overview of our fax certification lab;
>
> Works fine would be 100% reliable send/recv with the exception of my
> father using his VOIP fax service to send to me as testing.
>
> We send about 20 faxes a week and get about 40 a week inbound, when we
> started I checked with clients to see if there were any problems and
> none were encountered.
>
> Keep in mind, I did all the wiring in our building, use CAT5 for voice,
> and we don't use the VOIP device for internet service, we have it on a
> Dedicated IP outside our firewall and it ONLY provides Phone/Fax
> functions.
>
>
>
> > [removed link]
>
> > One of the things you have to realise is that fax over VoIP is
> > fundamentally flawed. We have spent a lot of time developing fax
> > boards and fax applications that are as tolerant of VoIP as possible.
> > We have demanding customers who can achieve fax failure rates of 0.1%
> > on POTS lines. The following article has been written by one of the
> > major contributors to HylaFAX... this guy explains in laymen's terns
> > what you are up against if you try to mix fax and VoIP;
>
> Why do I have to understand that it's flawed - it works fine with my
> clients and we've only seen problems when the ISP is over-sold and
> doesn't have capacity or when people use DSL and can't get what they
> were told for performance, but it's easy to check those stats before
> they try and go VOIP (if we are called before they make the leap).
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Leythos,
>Why do I have to understand that it's flawed
Did you read this document ?
http://hylafax.sourceforge.net/docs/fax-over-voip.pdf
I think it sets out why transmitting fax audio over lossy IP is
problematic. Can you see the flaw now ?
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP 3055)
all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points to a
faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will probably
get the one Leythos uses.
Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has the same
router with no fax problems.
Gregg Hill
"Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message
news:1183142153.618144.62330[ at ]o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last >> night >> would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. >> >> I only send about five a month. >> >> Thank you! >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> Leythos, >> >> >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one >> >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of >> >> external >> >> USR >> >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just >> >> remembered >> >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines >> >> have >> >> worked fine. >> >> >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone >> >> adapter >> >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one >> >> that >> >> has >> >> been mentioned, and that was from you. >> >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message >> >> >>news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com... >> >> >> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com >> >> > says... >> >> >> Hello! >> >> >> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I >> >> >> cannot >> >> >> send >> >> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax >> >> >> machines, >> >> >> one >> >> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS >> >> >> 2003 >> >> >> SP1). >> >> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine >> >> >> works >> >> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned >> >> >> off >> >> >> V.34 >> >> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the >> >> >> defaults >> >> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will >> >> >> replace >> >> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing. >> >> >> >> Any Vonage users out there? >> >> >> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple >> >> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of >> >> > them. >> >> >> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines >> >> > in >> >> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and >> >> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection. >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > Leythos >> >> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. >> >> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling >> >> > a >> >> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" >> >> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide >> >> > quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> > Hi Greg, >> >> > It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your >> > discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under any >> > illusions about what the requirements are. >> >> > Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab tests >> > and this had little bearing on the results. >> >> > Regards >> >> > ANDREW RINALDI >> > Mainpine Limited - Support >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Hi Gregg, > > With this low volume you should be able to get this working on > Vonage. I'd focus on the fax machine during your testing because it > removes the Brooktrout firmware and fax software from the equation. > I'd just keep pushing Vonage until you get an acceptable resolution on > your 'fax' line. > > Good luck ! > > Regards > > ANDREW RINALDI > Mainpine Limited - Support > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com >
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On Jun 29, 9:04 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP 3055) > all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points to a > faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will probably > get the one Leythos uses. > > Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has the same > router with no fax problems. > > Gregg Hill > > "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > news:1183142153.618144.62330[ at ]o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last > >> night > >> would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. > > >> I only send about five a month. > > >> Thank you! > > >> Gregg Hill > > >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > >>news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > >> > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> >> Leythos, > > >> >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned "one > >> >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of > >> >> external > >> >> USR > >> >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just > >> >> remembered > >> >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax machines > >> >> have > >> >> worked fine. > > >> >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone > >> >> adapter > >> >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one > >> >> that > >> >> has > >> >> been mentioned, and that was from you. > > >> >> Gregg Hill > > >> >> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message > > >> >>news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com... > > >> >> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, b...[ at ]nowhere.com > >> >> > says... > >> >> >> Hello! > > >> >> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I > >> >> >> cannot > >> >> >> send > >> >> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax > >> >> >> machines, > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server (SBS > >> >> >> 2003 > >> >> >> SP1). > >> >> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax machine > >> >> >> works > >> >> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I turned > >> >> >> off > >> >> >> V.34 > >> >> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as the > >> >> >> defaults > >> >> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I will > >> >> >> replace > >> >> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with faxing. > > >> >> >> Any Vonage users out there? > > >> >> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines (multiple > >> >> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of > >> >> > them. > > >> >> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax lines > >> >> > in > >> >> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage and > >> >> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection. > > >> >> > -- > > >> >> > Leythos > >> >> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. > >> >> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling > >> >> > a > >> >> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" > >> >> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide > >> >> > quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > Hi Greg, > > >> > It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your > >> > discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under any > >> > illusions about what the requirements are. > > >> > Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab tests > >> > and this had little bearing on the results. > > >> > Regards > > >> > ANDREW RINALDI > >> > Mainpine Limited - Support > >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com-Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Hi Gregg, > > > With this low volume you should be able to get this working on > > Vonage. I'd focus on the fax machine during your testing because it > > removes the Brooktrout firmware and fax software from the equation. > > I'd just keep pushing Vonage until you get an acceptable resolution on > > your 'fax' line. > > > Good luck ! > > > Regards > > > ANDREW RINALDI > > Mainpine Limited - Support > > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Hi Gregg,
Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
provider and router.
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
In article <#RqStiouHHA.4572[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, bogus[ at ]nowhere.com
says...
[Quoted Text] > The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP 3055)
> all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points to a
> faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will probably
> get the one Leythos uses.
>
> Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has the same
> router with no fax problems.
I had issues with mine when I first got it, not fax issues, there were
problems with call quality since my CISCO Router does not do QOS
(provided by the ISP), the sent me the VT2442 unit to replace that first
unit - the first one as just a Voice box, not network ports, and this
one has worked fine for a long time.
Now, my Road Runner phone is another story, the worst service I've had
in years from any vendor. Vonage has been great, other than not being
able to keep my phone numbers ( the hick town I live in doesn't support
E911 service so I have to use foreign exchange numbers).
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
In article <1183150131.012849.243350[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com says...
[Quoted Text] > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
> machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
> VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
> in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
> with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
>
> I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
> think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
> provider and router.
It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My
experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different
devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes
send/recv reliably.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
On Jun 29, 10:05 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > In article <1183150131.012849.243...[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
>
> > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
> > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
> > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
> > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
> > with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
>
> > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
> > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
> > provider and router.
>
> It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My
> experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different
> devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes
> send/recv reliably.
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
Leythos,
Fax over VoIP has nothing to do with network capacity. What you fail
to understand is that fax cannot tolerate significant amounts of audio
loss because this is interpreted as 'silence' which is one of the
major components of the T.30 fax protocol. It doesn't matter how you
frame the packets... any lossy IP transport will corrupt the audio
it's transporting. Most IP based 'internet' connectivity is lossy by
its very nature and in most environments where DSL or Cable are used
as the transport this packet loss will be significant.
Given the perfect nature of your VoIP system I'm surprised the vendor
offers the following advice to their fax customers;
" If you are unable to send and or receive faxes try lowering the baud
rate on the fax machine to 9600. Also disable the ECM feature on the
fax machine if applicable."
When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that
on a POTS line ?
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
In article <1183155298.494635.311470[ at ]g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com says...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 10:05 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
> > In article <1183150131.012849.243...[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
> >
> > > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
> > > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
> > > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
> > > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
> > > with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
> >
> > > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
> > > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
> > > provider and router.
> >
> > It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My
> > experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different
> > devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes
> > send/recv reliably.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Leythos
> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
> Leythos,
>
> Fax over VoIP has nothing to do with network capacity. What you fail
> to understand is that fax cannot tolerate significant amounts of audio
> loss because this is interpreted as 'silence' which is one of the
> major components of the T.30 fax protocol. It doesn't matter how you
> frame the packets... any lossy IP transport will corrupt the audio
> it's transporting. Most IP based 'internet' connectivity is lossy by
> its very nature and in most environments where DSL or Cable are used
> as the transport this packet loss will be significant.
Well, it does have to do with network capacity - a lack of capacity will
cause loss of audio, we see this when we saturate the connection while
talking on the VOIP service also. So, you need to reconsider, as VOIP,
depending on the quality, requires about 90k for Best, 30k for poor
quality, and if you can't make that connection rate then your audio
drops out, it's that simple.
> Given the perfect nature of your VoIP system I'm surprised the vendor
> offers the following advice to their fax customers;
>
> " If you are unable to send and or receive faxes try lowering the baud
> rate on the fax machine to 9600. Also disable the ECM feature on the
> fax machine if applicable."
>
> When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that
> on a POTS line ?
Hey, my ISP also tells me that there is no guarantee on performance
levels at any given time, but that doesn't mean that I'm getting crappy
service from them.
I don't think that my POTS vendor states anything about Fax service, so
what does that tell you?
So, again, your testing methods, while you've got a lot of data, appears
to be flawed because we're not seeing the same level of problem that you
describe - the difference could be that we have quality internet
connections where we don't experience any measurable loss to 99% of our
connections....
It's all about the connection quality, you appear to have a poor
connection quality for your testing.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
|
|
Considering that having a land line would cost about $35/month, I'll live
with it!
And as I noted, my father-in-law has NO problem faxing, and he has the same
router and the same ISP.
Gregg Hill
"Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message
news:1183150131.012849.243350[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 9:04 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP >> 3055) >> all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points to >> a >> faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will >> probably >> get the one Leythos uses. >> >> Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has the >> same >> router with no fax problems. >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1183142153.618144.62330[ at ]o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last >> >> night >> >> would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. >> >> >> I only send about five a month. >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> >> Leythos, >> >> >> >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned >> >> >> "one >> >> >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of >> >> >> external >> >> >> USR >> >> >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just >> >> >> remembered >> >> >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax >> >> >> machines >> >> >> have >> >> >> worked fine. >> >> >> >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone >> >> >> adapter >> >> >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one >> >> >> that >> >> >> has >> >> >> been mentioned, and that was from you. >> >> >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> >> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message >> >> >> >>news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com... >> >> >> >> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, >> >> >> > b...[ at ]nowhere.com >> >> >> > says... >> >> >> >> Hello! >> >> >> >> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I >> >> >> >> cannot >> >> >> >> send >> >> >> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax >> >> >> >> machines, >> >> >> >> one >> >> >> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server >> >> >> >> (SBS >> >> >> >> 2003 >> >> >> >> SP1). >> >> >> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax >> >> >> >> machine >> >> >> >> works >> >> >> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I >> >> >> >> turned >> >> >> >> off >> >> >> >> V.34 >> >> >> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> defaults >> >> >> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I >> >> >> >> will >> >> >> >> replace >> >> >> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with >> >> >> >> faxing. >> >> >> >> >> Any Vonage users out there? >> >> >> >> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines >> >> >> > (multiple >> >> >> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of >> >> >> > them. >> >> >> >> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax >> >> >> > lines >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage >> >> >> > and >> >> >> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection. >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> >> > Leythos >> >> >> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. >> >> >> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like >> >> >> > calling >> >> >> > a >> >> >> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" >> >> >> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- >> >> >> > Hide >> >> >> > quoted text - >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >> > Hi Greg, >> >> >> > It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your >> >> > discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under >> >> > any >> >> > illusions about what the requirements are. >> >> >> > Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab >> >> > tests >> >> > and this had little bearing on the results. >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > ANDREW RINALDI >> >> > Mainpine Limited - Support >> >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 >> >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com-Hide quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> > Hi Gregg, >> >> > With this low volume you should be able to get this working on >> > Vonage. I'd focus on the fax machine during your testing because it >> > removes the Brooktrout firmware and fax software from the equation. >> > I'd just keep pushing Vonage until you get an acceptable resolution on >> > your 'fax' line. >> >> > Good luck ! >> >> > Regards >> >> > ANDREW RINALDI >> > Mainpine Limited - Support >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Hi Gregg, > > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers, > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers > with advice regarding fax over VoIP. > > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP > provider and router. > > Regards > > ANDREW RINALDI > Mainpine Limited - Support > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com >
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"When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that on a
POTS line ?"
Earlier this year at one of my clients. Nothing worked until I put in a
Brooktrout card. They were told by the phone company that they have the
worst fax line on the system and cannot do anything about it due to distance
from the Telco.
Gregg Hill
"Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message
news:1183155298.494635.311470[ at ]g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[Quoted Text] > On Jun 29, 10:05 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
>> In article <1183150131.012849.243...[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
>>
>> > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
>> > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
>> > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
>> > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
>> > with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
>>
>> > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
>> > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
>> > provider and router.
>>
>> It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My
>> experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different
>> devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes
>> send/recv reliably.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Leythos
>> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
>> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
>> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
>> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
> Leythos,
>
> Fax over VoIP has nothing to do with network capacity. What you fail
> to understand is that fax cannot tolerate significant amounts of audio
> loss because this is interpreted as 'silence' which is one of the
> major components of the T.30 fax protocol. It doesn't matter how you
> frame the packets... any lossy IP transport will corrupt the audio
> it's transporting. Most IP based 'internet' connectivity is lossy by
> its very nature and in most environments where DSL or Cable are used
> as the transport this packet loss will be significant.
>
> Given the perfect nature of your VoIP system I'm surprised the vendor
> offers the following advice to their fax customers;
>
> " If you are unable to send and or receive faxes try lowering the baud
> rate on the fax machine to 9600. Also disable the ECM feature on the
> fax machine if applicable."
>
> When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that
> on a POTS line ?
>
> Regards
>
> ANDREW RINALDI
> Mainpine Limited - Support
> USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
> andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
>
|
|
VT2142 Motorola
--
Frank McCallister SBS MVP
MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist
COMPUMAC
"Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OE#f6HmuHHA.2360[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
[Quoted Text] > Frank, > > Which model from Vonage? They have over a dozen models. > > Mine is the RT31P2 with 1.30.01 firmware (original, as far as I know). > > Gregg Hill > > > > "Frank McCallister SBS MVP" <anonymous> wrote in message > news:8ACAA1C5-9D6F-4D3E-9572-188137C9460F[ at ]microsoft.com... >> Hi Gregg >> >> I use Vonage and a HP 2840 all in one Printer using Static IP. I am a >> very low volume fax user but I have had no difficulty with fax inbound or >> outbound. My internet provider is Charter and the modem is the one >> provided by Vonage. >> >> -- >> Frank McCallister SBS MVP >> MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist >> COMPUMAC >> >> "Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message >> news:eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Hello! >>> >>> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot >>> send faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax >>> machines, one dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my >>> server (SBS 2003 SP1). I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, >>> but no fax machine works well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 >>> all-in-one. I turned off V.34 and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and >>> then 2400, as well as the defaults of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at >>> 33600. Nothing works. I will replace the phone adapter if you know of >>> one that works well with faxing. >>> >>> Any Vonage users out there? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Gregg Hill >>> > > |
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Cool!
Gregg Hill
"Frank McCallister SBS MVP" <anonymous> wrote in message
news:F65BEA2D-FBF6-43B4-8C2A-74E0EC068F1B[ at ]microsoft.com...
[Quoted Text] > VT2142 Motorola > > -- > Frank McCallister SBS MVP > MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist > COMPUMAC > > "Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:OE#f6HmuHHA.2360[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Frank, >> >> Which model from Vonage? They have over a dozen models. >> >> Mine is the RT31P2 with 1.30.01 firmware (original, as far as I know). >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> >> "Frank McCallister SBS MVP" <anonymous> wrote in message >> news:8ACAA1C5-9D6F-4D3E-9572-188137C9460F[ at ]microsoft.com... >>> Hi Gregg >>> >>> I use Vonage and a HP 2840 all in one Printer using Static IP. I am a >>> very low volume fax user but I have had no difficulty with fax inbound >>> or outbound. My internet provider is Charter and the modem is the one >>> provided by Vonage. >>> >>> -- >>> Frank McCallister SBS MVP >>> MCP Microsoft Small Business Specialist >>> COMPUMAC >>> >>> "Gregg Hill" <bogus[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote in message >>> news:eMfV3biuHHA.3476[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Hello! >>>> >>>> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I cannot >>>> send faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax >>>> machines, one dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my >>>> server (SBS 2003 SP1). I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, >>>> but no fax machine works well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 >>>> all-in-one. I turned off V.34 and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and >>>> then 2400, as well as the defaults of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at >>>> 33600. Nothing works. I will replace the phone adapter if you know of >>>> one that works well with faxing. >>>> >>>> Any Vonage users out there? >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Gregg Hill >>>> >> >>
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On 29 Jun, 23:50, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > In article <1183155298.494635.311...[ at ]g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 10:05 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote:
> > > In article <1183150131.012849.243...[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says...
>
> > > > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax
> > > > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our
> > > > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers,
> > > > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers
> > > > with advice regarding fax over VoIP.
>
> > > > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I
> > > > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP
> > > > provider and router.
>
> > > It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My
> > > experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different
> > > devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes
> > > send/recv reliably.
>
> > > --
>
> > > Leythos
> > > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
> > Leythos,
>
> > Fax over VoIP has nothing to do with network capacity. What you fail
> > to understand is that fax cannot tolerate significant amounts of audio
> > loss because this is interpreted as 'silence' which is one of the
> > major components of the T.30 fax protocol. It doesn't matter how you
> > frame the packets... any lossy IP transport will corrupt the audio
> > it's transporting. Most IP based 'internet' connectivity is lossy by
> > its very nature and in most environments where DSL or Cable are used
> > as the transport this packet loss will be significant.
>
> Well, it does have to do with network capacity - a lack of capacity will
> cause loss of audio, we see this when we saturate the connection while
> talking on the VOIP service also. So, you need to reconsider, as VOIP,
> depending on the quality, requires about 90k for Best, 30k for poor
> quality, and if you can't make that connection rate then your audio
> drops out, it's that simple.
>
> > Given the perfect nature of your VoIP system I'm surprised the vendor
> > offers the following advice to their fax customers;
>
> > " If you are unable to send and or receive faxes try lowering the baud
> > rate on the fax machine to 9600. Also disable the ECM feature on the
> > fax machine if applicable."
>
> > When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that
> > on a POTS line ?
>
> Hey, my ISP also tells me that there is no guarantee on performance
> levels at any given time, but that doesn't mean that I'm getting crappy
> service from them.
>
> I don't think that my POTS vendor states anything about Fax service, so
> what does that tell you?
>
> So, again, your testing methods, while you've got a lot of data, appears
> to be flawed because we're not seeing the same level of problem that you
> describe - the difference could be that we have quality internet
> connections where we don't experience any measurable loss to 99% of our
> connections....
>
> It's all about the connection quality, you appear to have a poor
> connection quality for your testing.
>
> --
>
> Leythos
> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Leythos,
Your POTS service provider has to meet agreed line 'quality'
standards. Please remember that fax is just audio and therefore the
POTS vendor does not need to differentiate between voice and fax
traffic.
The difference between voice and fax on a lossy (IP) transport is that
the human brain can tolerate small discrepancies in the audio stream
without it becoming problematic or even noticeable. Fax however,
cannot because it's a half-duplex mechanism on which one side is
always listening for 'silence' to indicate a change of state... it's
the false 'silence' that's introduced by a IP packet loss that upsets
the fax protocol. So, I hope you can see it's not bandwidth that's
important but packet loss and jitter.
I can see we are getting nowhere with this discussion and so, I'll
butt out and wish you luck.
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
|
On 30 Jun, 01:17, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > Considering that having a land line would cost about $35/month, I'll live > with it! > > And as I noted, my father-in-law has NO problem faxing, and he has the same > router and the same ISP. > > Gregg Hill > > "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > news:1183150131.012849.243350[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jun 29, 9:04 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP > >> 3055) > >> all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points to > >> a > >> faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will > >> probably > >> get the one Leythos uses. > > >> Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has the > >> same > >> router with no fax problems. > > >> Gregg Hill > > >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > >>news:1183142153.618144.62330[ at ]o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > >> > On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> >> Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried last > >> >> night > >> >> would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. > > >> >> I only send about five a month. > > >> >> Thank you! > > >> >> Gregg Hill > > >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > >> >>news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Leythos, > > >> >> >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I mentioned > >> >> >> "one > >> >> >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of > >> >> >> external > >> >> >> USR > >> >> >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I just > >> >> >> remembered > >> >> >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax > >> >> >> machines > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> worked fine. > > >> >> >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which phone > >> >> >> adapter > >> >> >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only one > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> has > >> >> >> been mentioned, and that was from you. > > >> >> >> Gregg Hill > > >> >> >> "Leythos" <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote in message > > >> >> >>news:MPG.20eed69b263d64a498975d[ at ]adfree.Usenet.com... > > >> >> >> > In article <eMfV3biuHHA.3...[ at ]TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, > >> >> >> > b...[ at ]nowhere.com > >> >> >> > says... > >> >> >> >> Hello! > > >> >> >> >> Has anyone gotten faxing to work well on Vonage VoIP lines? I > >> >> >> >> cannot > >> >> >> >> send > >> >> >> >> faxes from a fax machine. I have tried three different fax > >> >> >> >> machines, > >> >> >> >> one > >> >> >> >> dialup modem, and a Brooktrout TruFax fax board in my server > >> >> >> >> (SBS > >> >> >> >> 2003 > >> >> >> >> SP1). > >> >> >> >> I can fax from the Brooktrout most of the time, but no fax > >> >> >> >> machine > >> >> >> >> works > >> >> >> >> well. I currently have a new HP LaserJet 3055 all-in-one. I > >> >> >> >> turned > >> >> >> >> off > >> >> >> >> V.34 > >> >> >> >> and ECM, and I set baud rate to 9600 and then 2400, as well as > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> defaults > >> >> >> >> of V.34 and ECM on with baud rate at 33600. Nothing works. I > >> >> >> >> will > >> >> >> >> replace > >> >> >> >> the phone adapter if you know of one that works well with > >> >> >> >> faxing. > > >> >> >> >> Any Vonage users out there? > > >> >> >> > I have 2 fax lines in my office (Vonage) and 4 voice lines > >> >> >> > (multiple > >> >> >> > devices are needed to do this). Fax in/out works fine on all of > >> >> >> > them. > > >> >> >> > I'm using a Serial External USR V.Everything modem on both fax > >> >> >> > lines > >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> > their default setup. I'm using VT2442 devices provided by Vonage > >> >> >> > and > >> >> >> > have a 4mbps up/down internet connection. > > >> >> >> > -- > > >> >> >> > Leythos > >> >> >> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. > >> >> >> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like > >> >> >> > calling > >> >> >> > a > >> >> >> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" > >> >> >> > spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)- > >> >> >> > Hide > >> >> >> > quoted text - > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> > Hi Greg, > > >> >> > It might be useful to fully define your fax requirements in your > >> >> > discussions with Vonage. In that way neither party will be under > >> >> > any > >> >> > illusions about what the requirements are. > > >> >> > Please also remember that we tried different routers in our lab > >> >> > tests > >> >> > and this had little bearing on the results. > > >> >> > Regards > > >> >> > ANDREW RINALDI > >> >> > Mainpine Limited - Support > >> >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > >> >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com-Hidequoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > Hi Gregg, > > >> > With this low volume you should be able to get this working on > >> > Vonage. I'd focus on the fax machine during your testing because it > >> > removes the Brooktrout firmware and fax software from the equation. > >> > I'd just keep pushing Vonage until you get an acceptable resolution on > >> > your 'fax' line. > > >> > Good luck ! > > >> > Regards > > >> > ANDREW RINALDI > >> > Mainpine Limited - Support > >> > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > >> > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com-Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Hi Gregg, > > > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax > > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our > > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers, > > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers > > with advice regarding fax over VoIP. > > > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I > > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP > > provider and router. > > > Regards > > > ANDREW RINALDI > > Mainpine Limited - Support > > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Gregg,
That's the ultimate point... you get the service you are prepared to
pay for. Isn't that why everyone want's VoIP because it's cheap ?
If you understand and accept the limitations of VoIP then you will be
happy.
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
|
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On 30 Jun, 01:22, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote:
[Quoted Text] > "When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that on a > POTS line ?" > > Earlier this year at one of my clients. Nothing worked until I put in a > Brooktrout card. They were told by the phone company that they have the > worst fax line on the system and cannot do anything about it due to distance > from the Telco. > > Gregg Hill > > "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message > > news:1183155298.494635.311470[ at ]g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jun 29, 10:05 pm, Leythos <v...[ at ]nowhere.lan> wrote: > >> In article <1183150131.012849.243...[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com says... > > >> > Our labs use over 50 different fax machines, MPP's, 100's of fax > >> > machine emulations, and almost every fax modem on the market. Our > >> > VoIP tests used many different ISP's, routers, and service suppliers, > >> > in both the UK and US. Our motivation was to provide our customers > >> > with advice regarding fax over VoIP. > > >> > I've done my best to pass on what we learned during that exercise, I > >> > think all that's left is to wish you luck with your choice of VoIP > >> > provider and router. > > >> It would appear that you have a serious flaw in your testing methods. My > >> experience is that, all over the USA, different providers, different > >> devices, is that if the network capacity is available that all faxes > >> send/recv reliably. > > >> -- > > >> Leythos > >> - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. > >> - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a > >> drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" > >> spam999f...[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address) > > > Leythos, > > > Fax over VoIP has nothing to do with network capacity. What you fail > > to understand is that fax cannot tolerate significant amounts of audio > > loss because this is interpreted as 'silence' which is one of the > > major components of the T.30 fax protocol. It doesn't matter how you > > frame the packets... any lossy IP transport will corrupt the audio > > it's transporting. Most IP based 'internet' connectivity is lossy by > > its very nature and in most environments where DSL or Cable are used > > as the transport this packet loss will be significant. > > > Given the perfect nature of your VoIP system I'm surprised the vendor > > offers the following advice to their fax customers; > > > " If you are unable to send and or receive faxes try lowering the baud > > rate on the fax machine to 9600. Also disable the ECM feature on the > > fax machine if applicable." > > > When was the last time that a fax machine vendor told you to do that > > on a POTS line ? > > > Regards > > > ANDREW RINALDI > > Mainpine Limited - Support > > USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439 > > andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com |www.mainpine.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Hi Gregg,
I'd suggest that the next time a phone company says you have the
'worst fax line' then i'd tell them to get real and fix the line. fax
and voice are both audio and a 'working' phone line will work equally
well for both.
Regards
ANDREW RINALDI
Mainpine Limited - Support
USA +1 503 822 9944 | Asia/Europe +44 1225 869439
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
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In article <1183196961.095718.52690[ at ]a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com says...
[Quoted Text] > So, I hope you can see it's not bandwidth that's
> important but packet loss and jitter.
>
> I can see we are getting nowhere with this discussion and so, I'll
> butt out and wish you luck.
You can butt out, but understand this - if I saturate the connection,
meaning that the VIOP device can't get the 90k/sec that it needs, there
WILL BE LOSS OF AUDIO and that will kill a fax. Yes, you also have loss
of audio with packet loss, but, if you don't have the capacity to
sustain 90k/sec then you will ALSO have audio loss.
Many DSL connections and Cable connections have limited outbound
capacity, many DSL connections provide 128kbps outbound as a standard
rate, many Cable connections only provide 256kbps outbound as a standard
rate - it's very easy to saturate that outbound connection and cause
loss of audio.
So, again, capacity does play a very big part in VOIP quality.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free[ at ]rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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You keep ignoring this statement: "And as I noted, my father-in-law has NO
problem faxing, and he has the same router and the same ISP."
Gregg Hill
"Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rinaldi[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message
news:1183197171.648900.58290[ at ]a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
[Quoted Text] > On 30 Jun, 01:17, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> Considering that having a land line would cost about $35/month, I'll live >> with it! >> >> And as I noted, my father-in-law has NO problem faxing, and he has the >> same >> router and the same ISP. >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1183150131.012849.243350[ at ]i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 9:04 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> The fact that three different fax machines (two stand-alone and one HP >> >> 3055) >> >> all suck and the same modems that Leythos uses do not work all points >> >> to >> >> a >> >> faulty router, in my opinion. Mine is a couple years old, so I will >> >> probably >> >> get the one Leythos uses. >> >> >> Also, as noted in my last response to Leythos, my father-in-law has >> >> the >> >> same >> >> router with no fax problems. >> >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:1183142153.618144.62330[ at ]o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 5:32 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> >> Usually I can send with the Brooktrout card, but the one I tried >> >> >> last >> >> >> night >> >> >> would not go from the 3055 or the Brooktrout. >> >> >> >> I only send about five a month. >> >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> >> >> Gregg Hill >> >> >> >> "Andrew Rinaldi" <andrew.rina...[ at ]mainpine.com> wrote in message >> >> >> >>news:1183134143.357375.293260[ at ]m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 4:48 pm, "Gregg Hill" <b...[ at ]nowhere.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Leythos, >> >> >> >> >> I think my Vonage router, RT31P2, must be dying. When I >> >> >> >> mentioned >> >> >> >> "one >> >> >> >> dialup modem" I left out that it was actually three versions of >> >> >> >> external >> >> >> >> USR >> >> >> >> V.Everything modems (3CP3453, 3453B, and one older model). I >> >> >> >> just >> >> >> >> remembered >> >> >> >> that my father-in-law has the same Vonage router, and his fax >> >> >> >> machines >> >> >> >> have >> >> >> >> worked fine. >> >> >> >> >> I am waiting for Vonage to respond to my email asking which >> >> >> >> phone >> >> >> >> adapter >> >> >> >> works best for faxing. So far, the Motorola VT2442 is the only >> >> >> >> | | |